Anyone purchased scion from madcat lately? Prok scion is $7 but most is $4. Anyone know why? https://www.madcatfarm.com/persimmon-scion
I think Iām noticing some difference in ātoughnessā of the varieties. Not only which ones can survive winter, but which ones can survive the crazy temperature fluctuations that some of us see. In the fall, we had a sudden drop of temps. Winter was mild (for this area). This spring, we had 90s followed by a morning of 16F. Some American varieties were damaged severely (burned back to the ground). Some not at all. Some in between. WS8-10 (Barbraās blush) might one of the tougher ones. Iām still learning more about this, but some of the reported āhardyā ones perhaps harden off too late to handle the sudden drastic reversal of temps in the fall, or wake up too early in the spring. Morris Burton might be one of the less āhardyā ones (with damage on multiple trees). I need to make a note of this.
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Let me try to walk around later if Iām able and take some notes about damage and bloom density. I think early golden was fine in all areas, but let me verify for sure. I had read that early golden is fairly cold hardy, and I saw some source that suggested it might be more cold hardy than Meader from someone who was growing it northerly. I donāt have Meader to do a comparison (and donāt plan to).
Interesting thing with JT02 is I think the winter damage didnāt burn back my trees (let me check to be sure), but it did cause them to barely bloom.
I had one rootstock that had damage like this. It was slow to wake, and I thinned it out. The living wood was on the northern side.
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Was pricing early golden persimmons and others and noticed the prices are really up $179 Early Golden Common Persimmon Treeling | Bower & Branch
$99 Early Golden Persimmon - 3 Gallon Container - Grimm's Gardens
Englands is one of the most reasonable but trees are small which means some babying is needed at $35
Grafting skills pays off at $4 scions
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John, do you know if the pictured damage happened during winter, or after the Spring 90F/16F event?
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I canāt say with absolutes, but I think that it was the 90/16 event. I wondered if the sun from the south could have warmed the south side of the tree more than the north and then it got hurt worse? Just spitballing.
I had some jujube damaged in interesting ways. Jujube planted by our deck on the south side of the house got their branches closest to the deck uniformly damaged where i expected it would be warmerā¦ but maybe the warmth of the deck made the branches closest to the house wake up sooner.
Another jujube planted just south of a building killed down to all but the lower branches. The ground was warm when it happened. I had just a few apple blooms surviveā¦ also protected and closest to the ground.
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A common type of damage is from winter sun when the trunk is frozen and the sun shines on it direct causing bark to separate from the stem. This is why tree trunks are often painted with while latex paint. Iāve had this type damage on a grafted walnut tree and learned my lesson.
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I have painted my persimmon at the grafts but not elsewhere, more to quickly see the union in the future than anything else. The damage I get usually is a burn down from the tops, especially on smaller woord, and not split trunks. Now, southern persimmon are another story. They split apart in the winter like theyāve blown up. They need removedā¦ just havenāt done it yet. They are happy to regrow and die every year. Such little troopers 
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Good olā American Capitalism.
It may be capitalism, but as a supplier of scionwood to others, I personally think $4/stick is a bargain. Collecting, labeling, and storing scionwood followed by packaging and shipping takes time. I put in about 16 hours collecting walnut and pecan scionwood this past winter.
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Itās odd in my opinion Prok is that much more. It is also odd trees are so expensive and scions are only $4. Prok grow slower?
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Do you by chance know much about Korp? American Persimmon Scionwood and Seeds
āFrom the same breeding program as Prok (Korp is Prok spelled backwards) . Very productive trees produce large delicious fruit.ā
Kelby i think you said āBoth are from NY state, I think John Gordon bred them. If I recall, they were seedlings from the same cross. Native, not hybrids.ā
This was from nearly 20 years ago but maybe you remember more about these persimmons. [NAFEX] Prok Persimmon
" NAFEX] Prok Persimmon
Lucky Pittman lucky.pittman at murraystate.edu
Fri Jun 23 09:58:19 EDT 2006
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At 07:03 AM 6/23/2006, you wrote: >Does anyone know the story and origin of the Prok persimmon? Iāve >heard that it is a hybrid with kaki, and Iāve also heard that it is >a seedling of Pipher. Is its pedigree known? I donāt know its background, and canāt remember where I got my Prok scion - probably at a KNGA meeting, or maybe from John Gordon. Thereās also Korp(Prok spelled backwards; a sibling or seedling of Prok) thatās supposed to be equally good. My Prok hasnāt fruited yet (maybe this year? Iāve not looked at it recently to see if it bloomed or set fruit.), but nobody I know personally whoās had it fruit for them has made any indication to me that itās anything other than a good quality large-fruited D.virginiana. John Gordon keeps pushing the thought that Geneva Long may be a D.v.XD.k. hybrid, but I got my GL scions from John, and if what he sent was true to name, GL is definitely NOT a hybrid - itās an OK persimmon, but no better than any number of unselected natives that Iāve eaten; just an average size American persimmon fruit, with good flavor. Iāve got good fruit set on several of my older persimmon grafts this year - Yates, Weber, Early Golden, but Iāve not looked at Prok or the larger Claypool selections that I finally transplanted 2-3 years ago. LLP
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Persimmon 2022-23 winter results in zone 5b/6a South Central NE
Here is how my persimmon handled the winter damage this year. Others make get different mileage. Mild winter here, but a spring event with 90s followed by a morning of 16F. For each variety, these results are from multiple trees in different locations. In some cases, isolated soil issues could have an impact, but some of the varieties were wholly succesful or damaged across the different areas. Persimmon in the 0 to āsomeā categories are probably fairly good but not as uniformly tough as the trees wholly within the 0 damage category.
Damage categorized as:
- 0 = no damage
- min = minimal damage (generally just a few branches with tip die back)
- some = more extensive than min and on larger branches (but still usually tip die back)
- severe = very severe damage. will the tree survive?
- dead = total loss of the tree above the graft
Varieties conveniently fitting into one category:
- No damage: A33, A118, Garretson, H55A, H63A, H118, H120, I115, Korp, L93, Slate, Wabash, Wonderful, WS8-10, 100-45, 100-46
- Min: Early golden (maybe a trait of the breedā¦ tip dieback on thin wood seen across 4 different trees)
- Some: U20A
- Severe: geneva long (repeated damaged over multiple years)
Varieties not neatly fitting into one category:
- I94: 0, min, some
- JT02: severe, some (severe tip die back of several feet and very few blooms)
- Prok: 0, 0, 0, 0, some (Iāve had some winter damage in the past with the deepest winter cold. But it seemed to withstand the spring event very well)
- Dollywood: 0, min, some (this variety has been more winter damage prone in the past)
- Osage: 0, min (or less so might generally go into the no-damage category)
- Deer candy: 0, min (or less)
- āRuby (mystery)ā: 0, min (this is not true Ruby so not sure what it is)
- Morris Burton: 0, some, severe
- C100: 0, some
- 100-42: min
- 100-43: some, severe
- Deer magnet: 0, min
Very small trees:
- L104: 0, severe
- Myers seedless: 0, severe
- Sweet lent: 0, dead
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In my experience, the prices charged by production wholesalers for bareroot fruit trees (4+ ft, not small airlayers) are nothing more than time & materials + shipping. If their production is entirely in-ground then wholesale bundles are $10-$20 per tree. If they have grafted evergreen saplings in pots but with soil from their site then the price is a bit higher. And so on. Retail is an entirely different story.
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Seems like a strong grower like Prok. I havenāt tasted it yet. My trees are fairly young, and Iām hoping for some ānormalā weather this year so I can try a number of varieties.
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That is exactly what i was looking for. Think your reading my mind! By chance do you know which ones are most productive? By the way iām a fan of early golden i like the flavor and texture. Dont like a seedy persimmon. Some persimmons have more seeds than i like.
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Not yet. Some of them bloom heavily even at a young age. H63A, 100-46, Prok. Even small 5ā garretson trees that I grafted last year are covered with blooms this year. In some cases, it might depend on the rootstock (or soil) as Iāve seen differences in bloom amount of the same variety in different spots. Lehman referred to I-115 at a talk some years ago when talking about commercial pulp production so I assumed that might be a heavy producer for thatā¦ although he might have simply been using it as an example.
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