dwarfing ≠ dwarf.
Further, severe heading back of young saplings on this rootstock is ill-advised.
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We have had 5 tiny apples on the dolgo tree and 2 on Goldrush. Pomme gris, 1 (pollinatiin issues for it-- bloom time too far removed from others).
Where these are planted was just field for at least several years as far as we know. The suckers emerged in the last 2 years, i missed pruning last year. And i have not pruned harshly, they just haven’t grown much. I just dont think they should look like this after 7 years in the ground. 
if this is the way M111 does then I’m better off with G11-- i would have smaller trees than i planned but better overall health. Pomme Gris was covered in blooms last year it just didnt get the pollination.
I got it because i thought it would establish well in the sandy soil we have. I remember reading of others who were growing on m111 and yet pruning the tree to be shorter and more open. Perhaps they simply had better soil, or the scionwood was much more vigorous varieties?
@aheartforhome can you take a close up pic of the rootstock? M-111 usually has burr knots and I don’t see any. I have seen burr knots be called out as a runting factor. It is supposedly recommended to plant trees on M-111 all the way till the graft union.
I do apologize, as this might make a difference, i found in my records Pomme Gris is on G16, not G11. But thats a dwarf…
Honeycrisp was on G935 but it never grew above 4 ft and then died.
Here’s how we started. I thought we cut as low as 18-24 inches but probably between 2-3 ft after looking at my old pics.
I’m not a native English speaker. So maybe I’m missing a language subtlety here.
But all sources from extension to research papers if seen. Talk in terms of both dwarf and dwarfing often interchangeably. And never in regards to MM111
a simple example would be
Dwarfing Rootstocks Semi-Dwarfing Rootstocks Standard Size Rootstocks B.9 B.118 Antonovka 313 G.16 B.490 MM.111 EMLA
https://apples.extension.org/apple-rootstock-characteristics-and-descriptions/
You can clearly see they use “Dwarfing” to describe dwarf rootstocks like B9 G16 M9 etc. “semi Dwarfing” to describe rootstocks like B118 MM106. But use “Standard size” for MM 111.
I think it would be wrong or misleading. Or at least confusing to describe MM 111 as “dwarfing”
Again, maybe I’m misinterpreting something here. But your original post seemed to suggest that a heading cut + the dwarfing of MM 111 explained the observed difference in vigor between the tree’s.
I find that unlikely.
Also it is not necessarily ill advised to do a heading cut on a young MM 111 tree.
I think there are many cases where that’s exactly what you want to do. (just like the case here, where OP wants a open center vase like tree.)
I’m in a country where such a heading cut is done on dwarfing stock (true dwarfing like M9, not MM 111 “dwarfing”) To make an early bearing central leader tree. (knipboom)
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im on a different continent. So my climate/soil can be quite different.
But i think your choice of MM 111 for your dry sandy soil makes a lot of sense.
I do think suckers can take a lot of vigor away from the top of the tree. + some randomness from a little neglect can explain some of the differences.
Just to check. the first picture (Pomme Gris on G16?)
The grafting point is above ground right?
i would not discount MM111 for further tree’s. It seems like a logical choice for your wishes and soil type. It does however require more sucker removal than most other rootstocks.
But it would be better to take advice from someone with growing circumstances closer to yours than from me.
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I would not discount a possibility that the rootstock of your trees was mislabeled.
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Mm111 is very dwarfing in my heavy clay soil. If you want them taller, you’ll want a central leader until they are 3 - 4’ tall. Then you top the leader, which will cause 2-3 branches to grow out and up until it reaches 10 -15’ . You should never let a side branch be almost bigger than the size of the trunk. You can cut the central leader low, but then you will get the experience you did, which is very dwarfing. Would keep most of what you have that are main branches in this case now.
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My apples on m111 grow incredibly slowly. They eventually reach 15-20 feet tall with open shape pruning. But it took a really long time to get there.
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I am in West Virginia, heavy red clay. M111 has a lot of vigor here, but not with Honeycrisp and gold rush ,which have less vigorous growth.
Some thoughts …
I see you have black fabric around some trees.
Pull that back and look for vole damage to the roots.
They like it under there.
Also it appears you have **broomsedge grass . A indicator of acidic soil.so some lime may be in order ( soil test )
Remove the root suckers , apply several ( 3 ~?) big hand fulls of urea ,
(or the equivalent ) mulch to keep a weed free zone 3-4 ft. Circle for a year or 2, I bet they perk right up.
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Compared to what? Here I plant it in many different types of soil and if that soil is capable of producing vigorous peach trees I’ve never had a problem with the vigor of apples on 111. It is peaches that get finicky, they can’t compete with established forest trees for water and really suffer when drainage isn’t good.
My standard method is to loosen the soil far beyond the roots and lay about 5 cubic feet of quality compost in a 6’ diameter circle over the planting area of slightly shallow planted trees than cover that with woodchips of the same quantity. Additionally I provide supplementary nitrogen for the 2nd and 3rd year of establishment.
For heavy clay, I always plant on mounds.
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We very well could have voles, we have them in our nearby veggie garden. I definitely think our soil is a touch acidic as we also have a lot of moss and lichen.
We used the landscape fabric to ward off weeds when they were first planted.
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May be a first time, but I agree.
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I think you’re blaming the rootstocks
and you should blame yourself for cutting the tops out
(possibly even in summer?)
then ignoring the trees for several seasons!
I sold a tree 30 inches tall I’d had 20 years…neglect can be a bad or a good thing sometimes I reckon.
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No we did it at first planting in spring. I agree we should have fertilized, but we did add compost at planting, watered when young and at dry spells, and i pruned every year except last & this. I am willing to accept it’s just a lack of TLC BUT why would the peaches, pears, and apple on G16 do so much better under the same conditions? We’re talking being planted since spring '16 and not being but 5 ft tall and 2 ft wide for the Dolgo, slightly more for the others. The pomme gris on G16 is more like 6-7 ft tall and wide.
I read a lot on this forum before planting and thought i was following in others’ footsteps using M111 and cutting low to force a open tree. I guess it isn’t very often done as I thought or maybe these weaker cultivars weren’t a good choice for it.
I’m thinking of planting anew, and seeing if in the intervening years these can improve with TLC. But I want a tree under 12 ft if possible… 8-10 is ideal… If training them wide by cutting the central leader isnt the way to go, what rootstocks should i be looking for to achieve this?
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I’d guess that if you converted back to a central leader, the M111’d take off like gangbusters. (Might be some time before it fruits, as it is as reluctant as most seedlings.)