I was reading about yaupon hollies how they have caffeine, but they can’t grow here. I was wondering if it’s possible to hybridize them to something more cold hardy and somehow keep the good traits (caffeine and edible).
So I was looking at winterberry, but it says it is poisonous. It says “All parts of the winterberry are toxic to humans, pets, and livestock. The most toxic part is the fruit. These fruits contain high amounts of caffeine and the alkaloid theobromine.”. Would it be fine after roasting the berries like cocoa bean? Just poisonous because too concentrated?
So many questions that I can’t find a clear answer to.
I just wonder about something to grow that can make a caffeine drink that isn’t nasty tasting or poisonous.
Are you talking about wintergreen
As in this type?
Wintergreen (gaultheria procumbens) is like little tiny shrubs. Yaupon holly (ilex vomitoria) is a tree. I don’t think they are closely related and am doubtful that they would cross.
Definitely not closely related. In completely different orders. In general if you’re looking for backyard breeding projects I think the smaller scale the better. Plus coffee is really cheap.
@sharq @Phlogopite
Whoops, sorry wrong one it’s winterberry not wintergreen, I wrote the wrong one😑.
I’m also interested in caffeine plants. Here’s an interesting article reviewing the uses of different Ilex species.
Here’s an old book all about the “Black Drink” made from Ilex vomitoria that’s quite informative for those who can grow it.
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Saponins are what make it poisonous. I don’t think winterberry contains any caffeine.
It’s hardy to zone 3, which is pretty impressive. A hybrid would get at least some of that hardiness. But Ilex is an absolutely massive genus, unless they’re in the same clade or something they might not be hybridizable.
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You can try some of the hardier tea (Camellia sinensis) varieties in a very sheltered location.
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The “Black Drink” book states that the vomiting is likely due to drinking A LOT of the yaupon tea on an empty stomach. It goes on to say that drinking that much hot water on an empty stomach also causes vomiting.
I haven’t personally tried it yet, but this company sells it: https://riseyaupon.com/
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Oh, I was talking about winterberry.
Oh, okay. That makes more sense.
Winterberry holly leaves make a safe and excellent tea, but without caffeine. I personally wouldn’t mess around with the berries. The problem is we don’t know what else is in there that may be toxic.
I think you could grow yaupon holly with a modicum of winter protection. I’ve considered trying that myself here in New Hampshire, but I need to figure out where to put it first.
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What is the flavor like? I’ve read of people hybridizing various types of hollies albeit only ornamental purposes, would love to see for cold hardy caffeine tea stuff.
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It’s very much like green tea or unroasted yerba mate.
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