Zone change in 15 years

Thanks for the kind words. You both are a wealth of knowledge as well.

The wine industry has always had problems with the weather, but yes, it has been facing an increase in certain or different issues than it has in the past. It’s also an industry that is unique in how much information we have for past years and is obsessed with how conditions each year affect quality. I mean, for what other crop do we have not only detailed harvest and quality records going back to the 18th century, but also actual samples of those harvests to run chemical analyses on? I just did a comparative tasting for work where we tasted our wines from the last 12 years side by side along with one from the 70’s made from the same vineyards. Without looking at historical weather records, I could tell you with reasonable certainty which years we had a dry spring, a cool summer, or a wet fall. I can’t think of any other fruit crop where this would be possible without relying entirely on memory, which is quite unreliable, especially when it comes to weather. To quote Steinbeck’s East of Eden:

I have spoken of the rich years when the rainfall was plentiful. But there were dry years too, and they put a terror on the valley. The water came in a thirty-year cycle. There would be five or six wet and wonderful years when there might be nineteen to twenty-five inches of rain, and the land would shout with grass. Then would come six or seven pretty good years of twelve to sixteen inches of rain. And then the dry years would come, and sometimes there would be only seven or eight inches of rain. The land dried up and the grasses headed out miserably a few inches high and great bare scabby places appeared in the valley. The live oaks got a crusty look and the sage-brush was gray. The land cracked and the springs dried up and the cattle listlessly nibbled dry twigs. Then the farmers and the ranchers would be filled with disgust for the Salinas Valley. The cows would grow thin and sometimes starve to death. People would have to haul water in barrels to their farms just for drinking. Some families would sell out for nearly nothing and move away. And it never failed that during the dry years the people forgot about the rich years, and during the wet years they lost all memory of the dry years. It was always that way.

California has always had a climate that fluctuates between too dry and too wet. “Average” rainfall years are actually quite uncommon. Building in resiliency is something the industry has decided is essential, regardless of how one feels about the future climate. All the measures we take, whether it’s increasing water use efficiency, installing heat mitigation measures, changing varieties, etc. are equally applicable to the California of the present and to any future vision of California’s climate.

It’s an interesting time to be in the industry for sure. On one hand we have people complaining about how “young people don’t drink wine” (White Americans over 65 are the only demographic where wine consumption has increased in the last few years. Gen Z people over drinking age have the lowest alcohol consumption rate of any generation at that age. If you don’t see the coming issues for the alcoholic beverage industry with that, well, you must be incredibly optimistic.). On the other hand, you have winemakers that refuse to change how they make their product to adapt to shifting preferences. Large producers, interestingly, are probably more innovative and adaptive to the market, since they have the resources to conduct consumer preference studies and adjust their products accordingly. Plus, they are beholden to their stakeholders and profits and less likely to be the vanity project of some rich person who doesn’t need to be concerned about the profitability (or lack thereof) of the winery.

Unless you’re shopping at farmers markets or ag stands, the fruit you get in most supermarkets here aren’t any different than what gets shipped to the rest of the country. It’s quite disappointing.

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Very thoughtful responses to some juicy discussion. I appreciate your perspective

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So stinkin’ interesting!!

The youngest drinkers I’m around are 30 and 40 year olds at my son’s backyard parties. The one substitute for wine and beer is cans of flavored seltzer with 5% alcohol.

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Fixed it. At my age my fingers and brain are not always linked. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I moved to my current home 25 years ago, already thinking about what climate change might do. In that time, we’ve gone from primarily grass pasture and hay (haylage), 200+ annual inches of snow, and a solid zone 4 to today’s zone 4b, 140-170" snowfall, and about 20% of the local cropland in ear corn, with even some soybeans being grown. More specifically, the ‘Northern Spy’ trees I planted in that first season here, thinking of them as only marginal, have become perfectly adapted. First bloom and harvest dates, first and last frost and freeze- even seasonal precip have all changed over that time. I’ve got some ‘zone 5’ varieties in during the last two seasons as a hedge against continued change, and am thinking of re-trying the grapes which failed so badly 20+ years ago.

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I love typos, especially typo puns. Clever fingers.

I love reading the science and data, and the added personal anecdotes, then on top of that the professional growers’ information and planning. great thread

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On the subject of milder winters leaving trees more vulnerable to later dips, I was always struck by how Olpea would describe severe winter damage caused by dips into the single negative digits, which used to not be a problem here. I feel certain that milder winter temps stop trees from reaching max cold hardiness. New York is now Maryland or S. Jersey. Perhaps soon to become N. Carolina.

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Trees gain hardiness every day if temperatures stay constantly below freezing. I forget how much and how fast. It was written up in Good Fruit Grower long ago. Once temperature goes above freezing hardiness is reduced. I doubt your area stays constantly below freezing very long. Here it’s a day now and then. A week constantly below freezing is nearly never. But we don’t drop below zero so mid winter injury isn’t an issue.

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I strongly suspect that ground temperature and soil moisture are also important, though harder to account for. Obviously, cold air temps beget cold ground temps, so there’s a lot of overlap between the two. Soil has lots of mass, though, so there’s an averaging effect.

Considering that sap flow is passive, and that xylem requires active metabolism, the osmotic pressure of wet soil must tend to lead to rising sap. Excess water is the enemy of hardiness, since it dilutes the sugars used by plants to lower the freezing temp. Also makes it so that cells are apt to rupture.

Around here, we had almost no frost penetration this past winter. Instead, we had mud season for much of the winter. Daytime temps frequently went up into the 40’s and 50’s. If soil was frozen, I’d think the above ground parts would be much better able to weather that type of variation.

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It really is a great thread, for all the reasons you mention!

Going into this thread, I had a simple, 2D thought process about this topic, but now it feels 3D from the data, knowledge, and experience shared by so many.

What a fun thread, thanks everyone for helping make it so rich!

IMG_3587

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Not mentioned here, but I assume that once a required number of chill hours are acheived that a tree becomes more susceptible to dramatic changes in temperature.

i’ve noticed that unwrapped figs fare pretty well through late-january and even into Februrary most years, but the wood shows increasing damage through March and April. i’ve done cuttings in late Feb without problem on unprotected figs (even in Michigan) and had them root easily. A few weeks later and the wood is non-viable.

Scott

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I would like to offer my contribution to this thread: what do y’all think are the most meaningful and concrete steps that we can take to protect our already established trees/bushes/vines from these temperature fluctuations? I am thinking primarily “what methods can we use to induce a delay in the production of flower buds until we determine that all danger of frost or cold weather has already passed”.

I’ve read here that many people like to protect the trunk of their fruit tree by piling leaves, wood chips or snow around the tree to help insulate it. I was considering the effectiveness of an even larger pile of wood chips, both higher and wider, all the way to (and maybe beyond) the drip line, effectively keeping the trunk, the soil and the roots cooler in order to delay the transition to the growing season. I’ve also been concerned that the mulch might cause the soil to remain too moist and cause root rot, so what methods may we employ in order to avoid that situation?

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Last year it was a drop to 19 on the last week in March that destroyed my necrt, plum and pear crop. The only trees showing any green at all were J. plums (barely) and cots. I remember once years ago getting down to zero in mid-march without nearly the damage. It is pretty apparent here that winters are not hardening off trees as much as they used to. 19F anytime in March used to be pretty common, as I recall.

This year -7F in early February, a very common level of cold for the entire month, historically, and my cots were wiped out. It looks like a lot of the ovaries of plums were destroyed, but I’m still waiting to see the extent of damage.

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I’m a newer grower, none of my trees are producing fruit yet (on year 2 for most trees) but I have ~18 trees on a .3 acre suburban lot. I’m new, which means I got to plan my tree placement with this idea in mind! I’m banking on the idea that it’s not the raw ‘cold’ that kills tress in the winter but whether they experience ‘too cold’ before they’ve gotten fully dormant and/or too many winter temperature swings. I’ve tried to place my trees that are more marginal or that I’m worried freeze kill/spring frost about on the north side of my house so they start getting shaded in late September and hopefully get the cue to go dormant even if the weather is warmer than it’s supposed to be, and with the hopes that then winter/early spring temperature fluctuations don’t hit them as much because they’re not getting as much sun or snow melt. I’m also hoping that they stay shaded in the spring to delay them waking up. I’m trying to manipulate the sun angle with my house so that the sun angle controls the dormancy regardless of what the temperatures are. Only time will tell whether this is going to work for me! I’m hoping it gives me some buffer toward zone change and temperature fluctiations in the future.

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19 in March is clearly spring freeze damage after the trees started growing. Minus 7 in early Febr is kind of in the zone between winter kill and spring freeze. I’d lean to spring freeze since in your climate most stone fruit has enough chilling by Jan 1. Any warm weather after that is going to start lowering plant hardiness in a big way.

It would still be winter if temps were as low as what used to be normal preceding it and only the J. plums and cots showed any green, but because of preceding mild temps. Now we’ve recently had winters where peach blossoms were swollen throughout the way they used to only get in early April.

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There are many variables. For most plants it does take certain amount of time to reach a certain amount of hardiness. Even if your plants are good to -30f, if you have a month in the 20s and the next day you hit -10f, you are going to get a lot of winter damage.

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