2023 Persimmon Grafting

[TNHunter]

Hey all… @zendog @Robert others…

I have been looking at all the successful persimmon grafts this year and it has gone really well. Happy with the results so far.

H63A is one of the few grafts that i tried that failed. Bummer.

I have a mix of 1 asian IKKJ and several american and hybrids…

I have been trying to look at what I have and figure out when each variety ripens to see if i need to add varieties next spring to help extend or broaden my persimmon harvest time frame.

Cliff does not mention anything about ripening times (for some varieties) that i can find.

Like H63A H69A 100-46…

I have noticed that most of the varieties i have had success with seem to be in the mid to late ripening groups.

Here is some info I found…

IKKJ … Starks says ripens Sept/Oct… but i found other sources saying late Oct early Nov ???

JT02… i found no ripening data on it. ???

Prok … per Cliff ripens late August in KY. I expext in southern TN it may be a week or so earlier. This may be the earliest ripening variety i have now.

Zima Khurma … ripens late season was all i could find on it ? October Nov Dec ?

Kassandra… per Cliff is mid season

Nakittas Gift - October per OGW ??

WS8-10… late fall early winter. More details would be nice.

I have several wilds here including rich tooie… and they mostly ripen in October… a few of them will hold ripe fruit on the tree into November and one into December.

Does anyone have some ripening data on H63A H69A 100-46 ?

Now here are two that i am considering adding next spring… to get some early ripening fruit.

Journey (hybrid) per Cliff… it ripens the earliest of all his persimmons… and has the taste of vanilla.

Mohler (american I think) per Cliff ripens early Aug to early Sept. He describes it as exceptionally sweet, complex fruity flavor. Med size fruit.

Adding those two should have me rolling in persimmons August-December ???

If any of you have more ripening data on these or other varieties that might help round out my collection… let me know please. Would be nice to know when these varieties ripen in your State.

Thanks
TNHunter

[Robert]

@TNHunter

if i need to add varieties next spring to help extend or broaden my persimmon harvest time frame.

You have a pretty good selection. I wouldn’t doubt if you have the entire season covered now. Just keep grafting more. If you’re running low on seedlings start making them two varieties each.

Initially I was interested in the large varieties. Got those, so now it’s time to get some of the different ones. Another variety you may want to consider is Princess. Think that’s the right name. It ripens over the winter and is eaten the months before spring. I have not tried it, but it sounds interesting. Looks like a chile pepper.

[jcguarneri]

Princess is a whole different species from any of the other commonly grown persimmons, not a cultivar. It is edible, but I don’t know if it’s graft compatible. It would probably make the most sense to buy seedlings. It’s pretty available, as it’s a popular bonsai subject.

[TNHunter]

@blueKYstream … i looked at local stores yesterday and could not find any… so i ordered a pint of Captain Jack Dead Bug (Spinosad) concentrate from amazon.

I read that it works well on psyllid… and i am going to try that out soon after it arrives.

My Corora De Rio persimmon graft is still somewhat small and under pysillid attack.
They have killed the new growth at the shoot tips. So it will have to punt and send out new growth.

[TNHunter]

@Robert … i think you are right about me having (August to December) covered pretty well… considering I add Journey and Mohler next spring.

On the wild persimmon seedlings… i have 50+ left… not sure if there are enough varieties for me to run out of rootstock.

I may well have all that i want after grafting 4 more next spring… or perhaps 4 more the spring after that…

I am going to eventually have way more persimmons than we can eat or process.

Our little town added a farmers market this spring… pretty nice… once i retire … and once all these start producing… i may try selling persimmons at the local farmers market.

Any of you folks selling persimmons ?

[snowflake]

Not a 2023 graft. 2021. But… the dangers of grating too high to a leggy persimmon, especially when a young tree gets a bunch of fruit weight. I might severely prune it back this winter and see if it can work on some diameter and a vertical main trunk over the next couple of years.

[zendog]

That certainly looks like a nice producer, although certainly has a lot of weight for that little trunk. What variety is that?

[JohnS]

That mycelium is great for your trees. It converts wood chips into good soil, and most trees need more fungi in the soil and less bacteria than what we typically have in our soils.

John S
PDX OR

[zendog]

@TNHunter

i may try selling persimmons at the local farmers market.

Any of you folks selling persimmons ?

With my current growing area, I probably won’t have enough to think of selling soon, although I’ve seen a few postings on Facebook marketplace in our area of people selling Asian persimmons (usually non-astringent) for $1/each. Not bad if your tree is producing hundreds and you only want 50 for yourself.

Unfortunately, most people might not consider a well-ripened American persimmon as visually beautiful
and it might be hard to get ripeness right or for people to figure out how to tell if they actually are ripe. For American persimmons, I actually think the culinary/cooking route is the way to go. I’ve seen people selling frozen pulp, which lets you process it all at once and sell it over time and not worry about timing for correct ripeness, avoiding astringency, etc. I bet you could also sell cookies, cakes and pudding, but that is a lot of work and there are probably regulations regarding needing a commercial kitchen, etc . Even processing the pulp might be more work than you want.

But if I had enough, I would probably start calling craft brewers. There is definitely interest in this in the brewing community, but there aren’t many realiable sources for them to get enough persimmons all at once. If they knew there was a reliable source that they could count on each year you might have an easy regular market. You can already find people using them for sours or a hazy ipa.

OverWorks - Overworks Persimmon--6.4% ABV

And there are also people interested in creating some of the historical beers, like the one mentioned in this article.

Craft Brewery Resurrects 300-Year-Old Persimmon Beer Recipe

There is interest in pawpaws for beer as well.

[ansayre]

There is a persimmon festival in Mitchell Indiana. You might look at the persimmon goods that are sold. Selling pulp might be the best approach but my understanding is it looses the persimmon flavor relatively quickly.

I’d gladly take some off your hands!

[JohnS]

I posted this elsewhere, but it may help some people. I noticed a difference in success when I refrigerated my persimmon scions vs. not refrigerating them. No refrigeration-0% success. Later, refrigeration-100% success. Then, no refrigeration-0% success. I am not a genius, but I’m starting to notice a pattern here. This effect is very different from apple, and pear scions.
John S
PDX OR

[jcguarneri]

My experience thus far has been that persimmon scions are very forgiving, at least the fully dormant ones. My first batch of scionwood that I got was sent late in the season, returned to sender, delayed in the mail, and finally arrived in a particularly hot stretch of weather. More than two weeks from initial mailing, if I recall correctly. The sticks were a bit moldy, but I gave them a soak and a bleach bath and I got 80-90% takes. The 10-20% was more a reflection of my skills than the state of the scions.

[zendog]

@hobilus

Is there a sport of Morris Burton out there? Amongst the wood given to me by Buzz last year was ‘Large Morris Burton’. I suspected it might be a sport with some type of improved traits, but also could be reflect some abundant optimism and a good site. Curious if anyone is familiar with such a sport.

There is a Morris Burton #3, which I know @tonyOmahaz5 has grown and I have scion for this year and grafted. I believe Cliff is the original source and since Buzz has gotten a lot of varieties from Cliff over the years maybe it is the same? I don’t really know anything else about it except reports that it is supposed to be good. If you ever find out anything more from Buzz and whether it might be the same as Morris Burton #3 I hope you’ll post it here.

[JohnS]

The soak in water may have made the difference. As you know, we get awful dry up here in PNW sometimes in late spring and usually in the summer. Good data.
I’m not an amazing grafting whiz. I just go for it and some of them take. I’m trying to learn from the rest of you. Hopefully, I get a little better each decade.
John S
PDX OR

[Luisport]

Coroa de Rei ripens in September and is big size… They are already big!

[Robert]

American Persimmon (Diospyros virginiana) Part II- Processing and Uses

I found the attachment for my meat grinder to process like this. Looks pretty fast and easy. The video is from Oikos and gives some ideas for usage.

[hobilus]

@Robert

gives some ideas for usage.

That mill is called a “squeezeo” I believe. Theres a cheaper generic version available too.

Personally, I like to freeze ‘simmons whole. Theyre ljke popsicle bonbons!

[Robert]

Think it’s a Roma. Amazon is loaded with knock offs. I already had the meat grinder, so the attachment was the cheap way to go for me. Saw some people on the forum using the mill for apples as well.

[snowflake]

@zendog

That certainly looks like a nice producer, although certainly has a lot of weight for that little trunk. What variety is that?

A118. That one seems to produce fairly young.

[clarkinks]

@snowflake

A118 aka elmo looks pretty good!

'Claypool A-118' ('Elmo') Persimmon (Diospyros virginiana)

Just wanted to show size comparison between James Claypool’s ‘A-118’ (‘Elmo’) persimmon and the wild American persimmon. Both are Diospyros virginiana. Although ‘Elmo’ is a significantly larger fruit and has more flesh, I feel the wild persimmon has a flavor that is perhaps slightly more intense. ‘Elmo’ is very good, non-the-less. (The fruit above the quarter is ‘Elmo’) [Elmo size comparison]