40 sad and neglected apple/pear/asian pear trees need your guidance! or should I get rid of them?

[benthegirl]

My two big questions are:

1. What do I do with these trees? Prune and try to rehab? Cut down? use as rootstock and graft?

2. Anyone have any idea about what these are? (will likely inform my decision about whether to keep!)

I’m sure after I figure out what to do I’ll need more advice!!!

TLDR: I think I do want to try and have fruit trees but I don’t really love apples. Current trees are sad (See pictures). Zone 6b. My winter lowest low is actually between -5F and 0F most years. Summers are humid but highs are not too high. I am willing to work hard and I’m in this for the long plan. I have grown many veggies/herbs/flowers successfully - I know fruit trees are harder but I think I can learn.

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I bought a small (10 acre) hobby farm in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. My first 9 months have been concerned with getting the house in livable condition and solving scary problems like the roof, heating, and the septic system! I took some pictures of the trees at various points so I could figure things out later when the chaos died down (pictures below)

My property has two small orchards and a grove of paw-paws. One orchard has about 20 live trees (~5 dead) and the other has about 15 live trees (3 dead). I keep saying “trees” because I can’t actually tell you what they are. I think they are some combo of pear, apple, and asian pear. The grove of paw-paws is on a hill with ~10 paw-paw trees plus a bunch of small and medium volunteer paw-paws.

Additionally, I have 5+ acres of red cedar and it is also all over the neighbor’s property. Getting rid of it isn’t an option. I have seen the galls on the cedar trees so I know apple-cedar blight is present.

The paw-paws did well and produced tons of fruit and my paw-paw loving friends were thrilled.

The two orchards are looking quite terrible. Both had trees which got fruit that dropped before ripening. I didn’t realize until a month ago in winter (looking back at pictures) that there is more than one type of pear/apple/asian pear in the orchards. The pear/apple/asian pear are all quite tall. One orchard has a couple peach trees which are both in very awful condition. My two peaches that made it to being almost ripe were stolen by animals!!!

I have been reading all the threads I could and watching videos. I know that I will have to prune, mulch, get rid of weeds, spray, then wait (and pray) if I decide to get my trees into better shape. But I want help deciding if that’s what I should do.

Other things:

1. Apples aren’t my favorite. I love pears and peaches and I’m willing to work for them - but I might wait a couple years to start new trees if that is the plan. I also love berries and will be starting some cane berries this year.

2. My trees are tall! I’m okay with heights. I do a lot of construction and I’m used to ladder safety and using a ladder. Still - wouldn’t everyone rather have shorter trees? Trees are 15-25 ft in one orchard and 10-20ft in the other

3. I’ve had my soil tested in the orchards and in the area I plan for veggies and for berries. It shows good nutrients but high pH. I amended in the new areas with sulfur. not sure how to apply that to the trees. The soil is “silty loam” 13% clay, 25% sand and 62% silt

4. Using sat photos I can see my fruit trees were planted between 2001-2011. I have no way of finding out what they are or what the rootstock is from the couple that planted them. One of the previous owners is living but is a bit forgetful and somewhat fuzzy on most details.

5. Neighbors tell me the previous owners were known for giving piles of good fruit, enormous tomatoes and random veggies. So I know that the property can produce these things!

in winter:

in spring:

Two different fruits… I think…

Leaves have Fabraea spot?

Also waterspout and coverd in lichen =(

Random extra pictures that might help:

Uploading: trunk2.JPG…

Grateful for any advice you can give!!

[Richard]

Welcome to GrowingFruit!

Some follow-up questions and expert advice are on the way

[horna]

How many feet apart are the trees

[kokopelli5A]

If the previous owners were known for giving away a lot of good fruit, then the likelihood is that the trees are worth trying to save. At least some of them.

That shouldn’t stop you from planting some of your own.

[DennisD]

Welcome to the site Elizabeth,
Do you know if deer are the animals you need to deal with? Could be that’s why the owners grew trees so tall. I would take the first year to do your assessments before making too many decisions: things to consider:

1. What animals are present that you can control?
2. Which trees have any real fruit value to you? Worth keeping.
3. What types of fruit would you prefer. Your soil appears to have a healthy grass growth so probably can support almost any type of tree.
4. Are any neighbors willing to come take the trees you wish to go away? If so best to do during a dormant season, and with someone accustomed to salvaging mature trees.
5. Not sure if your red cedars are worth keeping, maybe someone can take them for the lumber as they are very valuable as building products. Keeping them only encourages cedar rust, especially on apples.
   Just my thoughts
   Dennis
   Kent, wa

[benthegirl]

Trees are in rows with each tree 8-10ft apart and rows 8-10ft apart. Rows are approx north/south facing. Trunk diameters range from 5in-10in.

[benthegirl]

Thank you for you help!

1. I do have deer! They are not excessive like at my friend’s house in MD but definitely do eat stuff. Perhaps that IS why trees are so tall. I have not seen the insane bark damage I associate with deer - but perhaps that’s just because there’s enough other stuff for them to eat!

I have seen many squirrels but only a few of the other animals- one bear, a racoon once, some feral cats. My dog is kind of mean (but oddly likes deer) so most, including the postman, stay away.

2. Value is a funny thing! I don’t love apples but I’d be happy to have apple trees because my friends and neighbors would enjoy them. I don’t know how I feel about asian pear. I guess I’d have to try one and see if I liked it! Unfortunately, I still don’t really know what these trees are producing. One looks like asian pear. One looks like maybe apple? another looks like maybe pear? I didn’t get fruit this summer.

3. My preference would be peach and pear. Despite the soil results being “too alkaline” everything here seems to grow like wildfire! Thanks for your vote of confidence. I keep thinking peaches are “too hard” but I am willing to work at it.

4. What a great idea! I will ask? They might not want a mystery tree… but perhaps some would!! Many here remember the previous owners fondly. The husband was a teacher in the local school and coached many of the kids who are now adults in the area. Also a good way to get to know my neighbors. Also, they could come see them this summer and decide if they want one… I’m not in a terrible hurry.

5. For better or worse, the red cedar are going to stick around. Too many to get rid of and every property around here has acres of them. Even if I cleared mine, my neighbors have so many that I’d still have cedar-apple rust. I also really love the privacy and wind screen they provide.

[benthegirl]

Thanks! I realize now I should ask around and see if people remember what fruit they got! Or maybe they visited or picked their own.

And thank you for encouraging me to plant my own. I do hope to plant peaches at least - I do love them but I anticipate difficulty!

[lordkiwi]

Your trees look healthy to me. That gray green lichen growing on the trunks is just lichen. Its not a disease or harmful.

To what you want to remove are water sprouts. Branches growing straight up

What you want to keep are Fruting Spurs

For branches not growing straight up reduce the terminal buds at about the third forth bud so it turns into a spur.

To keep your trees from droping fruit you have to thin the fruits.
1-3 fruit per spur

[evilpaul]

My question for somebody with more experience than myself in dealing with deer would be about the apparent lack of bark damage: Would you expect to see a lot of rubbing damage in an orchard where you’re starting your branches at ladder-requiring height to protect the fruit? Was the tree height and lack of lower branching just neglect (or the previous owner’s preference for taller trees or something else) or actually because the deer were destroying everything in reach?

If the deer pressure isn’t too crazy, top working the trees with cedar apple rust resistant varieties or major rejuvenation cuts might not be a bad idea to salvage the big root systems that are already there.

[leeGA]

Deer will eat any and all leaves within reach and even nibble on tender branches in winter. It does not take a large deer herd, fruit trees are magnets. As for the rubbing…this is more territorial and can be hit or miss. If a buck frequents a property and sees young standalone trees in a field (your fruit trees), I think it’s more attractive for him to rub. Not a biologist, just my experience and opinion!

To the OP, looks like you have a great property to work with. If you do put in new trees, you can make hoops out of 4’ “goat” fence to protect young trees from deer. I’ve found this works well.

[TreeGuy]

Those trees dont seem too bad. They do seem a little close together considering you have a good bit of property. I think if there are some varieties you don’t like, you could get rid of them and open things up a bit. It may take a couple years of pruning, but I think you should be able to get most of them a bit shorter.

Two things I think you will probably need would be a decent sprayer( I would think gas powered, but I’m sure some get by with less) and an orchard tripod ladder. Orchard ladders look kindof silly until you use one. They will be vary valuable with trees your size, and much safer than traditional ladders. Unfortunately they seemed to have doubled in price since 5-6 years when I got mine. Aluminum is super nice, but I’m sure you could find wood on Facebook nearby you.

[marknmt]

Just some thoughts -

If growing for yourself just a few trees of decent size can provide plenty of fruit, and plenty of work. I need less of both now that I’m in my 70s.

Your trees don’t really look that bad to me. They have been allowed to get taller than need be, but that can be fixed. If you care to spend the money it might be nice to have some professional help bringing them down to size the first year or so.

Just about all fruit is better when you get closer to the source. There may even be an apple or two you find you like!

[hambone]

Agree with comment the trees look too close together for best sun and air. One option is remove every other tree in a row, instantly cutting maintenance in half. A hot summer day is when I cut tops out of too tall apples, pears. You can drop height gradually over a couple years, not removing more than say 30% of the tree any one year. If you lower height in winter you’ll probably get a lot more unwanted water sprouts than doing it in summer.

Before making any pruning cuts always ask yourself- Is fireblight a risk today? If the answer is yes, don’t prune. If winter or over 85 degrees in summer, the answer is no. FB operates only in moderate temps say 60 to 85 degrees. The pruning cut gives blight an access point for entry and mayhem.

You might want to read up on the “Ugly Stub” method of blight pruning by Prof. Steiner.
Ugly Stub Pruning for Fire Blight | University of Maryland Extension. I ignore the many other ideas on blight pruning, this is the one IMO.

[TNHunter]

I agree the spacing on your trees looks quite tight for the tree size.

Where multiple trees have died and you have room to plant another… you might consider planting a few varieties of american persimmon.

Low maintenance, no spray, delicious fruit. I am sure your pawpaw friends would agree.

I love peaches… but no longer grow them… i am moving to low maintenance no spray as much as possible.

Peaches are delicious… but also high maintenance and require many sprays to get good fruit. Many people here do all that spray and maintenance and still have brown rot and wormy peaches.

Raspberries, Blackberries, Blueberries, Strawberries, Loganberries, are a little work but are super dependable producers for me here in TN and very delicious… and i have never sprayed mine.

Good Luck !!!

[SoCalGardenNut]

This is a model I follow, I plant my trees very closely.

High Density Landscape

[ribs1]

I cage my trees until they are at least 4-5 years old. Once trees are mature the bucks leave them alone at least here.

[Rosdonald]

I also live in the Shenandoah valley of Virginia zone 6b. What comes to mind for me is how long many have waited for the opportunity to get trees with as much promise as yours. What a great chance to get some awesome fruit without the waiting.

Not knowing what the variety is can be a big frustration or taken otherwise, a challenge. Over time it will become more obvious based on the bloom and harvest time, vigor, fruit taste, etc.

I have about 4 acres and I would give anything to have bought a property with more land and established trees. Heck let me know and I’ll be over with my long handled pruner in a flash to lend you a hand. Seriously…

Congratulations on your new adventure!

[chinook]

You have an orchard of 20 year old producing trees. Do not remove any till you have tasted them over several years and not enjoyed. Yes they are planted too tight, but you can deal with that.

[benthegirl]

Thank you! These are very helpful pictures and especially the diagram!