Luxin, search for articles about embryo recovery in persimmon.
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Iāll just be recreating the kakixvirginiana hybridization process, crossgraft first (using approach graft) then cross pollinate. Iāll let you know in a year if my grafts fail, or 4 years if the pollination fails lol.
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I thought these hybrids were created using colchicine?
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Iām not sure if this is where I saw the process laid out, but it repeats the specifics.
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Which post the one about how they just crossed it back or the way the russians tried to get it to accept pollen?
Didnāt we have someone do a genetic analysis on jt-02 and rosseyanka?
In my brain i do not understand how grafting it would change its chromosomes or make it more pollen compatible. However i wish you great luck and am excited to see new hybrids.
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How would that work?
colchicine if i remember right messes w microtubule function, creating a āscrambledā cell division where chromosomes do not separate correctly.
It is used as a crude drug in various replication/hybridization/cell division studies
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fwiw, i donāt believe it would
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Yeah, the only mechanism that I can imagine is if the rootstock produces a hormone that modifies flower behavior in some way, but this is way out of my depth of knowledge!
Seedlings of two distant species are more likely to crossbreed at their first flowering. This was discovered by Ivan Michurin during his trials to crossbreed distant but genetically similar fruit species. His was also a technique to graft the seedlings on each other before that first flowering. He called it Vegetative Approach. Apparently this doesnāt work with existing cultivars. Pasenkov used exactly this in creating Rosijanka.
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I would love to have the scientific paper about this handy as a backup, do you know where I can find it?
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I canāt find a reference to the actual paper, but it was likely published in Russian over a century ago so itās possible not digitized or translated.
How do they compare to Meader for flavor, sweetness & size?
Astringency?
Iām in the Sonoran Desert, zone 9a, with 114 days above 100Ā°F
What would be the most intensely flavored persimmon which could do well here.
Hachiya & Saijo both have issues with the heat & need special micro environments created.
Saijo does better than Hachiya.
But would like a non astringent cultivar with strong American persimmon taste.
Is Meader my best choice or (Prok, or H-118, or 100-46) ???
American persimmon is not a desert species. Arenāt you rolling the boulder uphill?
You write āwould like a non astringent cultivar with strong American persimmon taste.ā This reminds me of the scene in The Sopranos where Junior says, āAnd I want to [do] Angie Dickinson. Letās see who gets lucky first.ā
I think your best hope is a non-astringent hybrid, such as I discuss elsewhere. The easiest route would seem to be a back-cross of JT-02 to the Asian PCNA Taishu, which is the father of JT-02.
Lol nice line.
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@jrd51 ,
Nice flavor but Mikkusu is the size of a muscadine grape & still astringent until fully ripe.
Plus it might not be as heat tolerant as Meader.
Meader is far more tolerant of our heat & soil than Saijo, which is more tolerant than Hachiya.
Thanks for trying!
I will focus my boulder rolling on Asimina triloba.
@ZinHead ā
Well, OK, yes ā Trying to grow pawpaw (A ttiloba) in the desert is rolling an even bigger boulder.
If you want American persimmons and pawpaws, wouldnāt it be easier just to move to the midwest?
Note ā I did not suggest that you grow Mikkusu per se. I suggested that the best avenue to a non-astringent persimmon with American flavor (which is your stated goal) is to back-cross Mikkusu.
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Viable breeding course of action to eat a few fruits before I crock, lol.
Anything non-astringent similar to Mikkusu, which is 3 times the mass?
Hum? No? Bummer!
Available shade reserved for (Susquehanna hybrids, KSU Chappell, Tallahatchie, Susquehanna, Sunflower, DLMcC #9, Mango & Jerry Lehman hybrids).
@Zinhead ā No, thatās the point. By starting with JT-02, you need one generation. We could have seedlings in a year. Grafting those seedlings to established trees, we could have fruit 2 years after that. I can attest to the speed of fruiting on grafts ā I have a single fruit on a 1-year old graft of JT-02 onto IKKJ.
I also donāt get your beef about the size of JT-02 / Mikkusu. As the daughter of a cross between an Asian PCNA and an American, the size is in between. In general, the Americans you intend to grow are smaller that the hybrids that you shun. It makes no sense.
Hereās picture of my one Mikkusu fruit. Itās already way bigger than a grape and only slightly smaller than IKKJ fruit on the same tree.
Hereās the IKKJ fruit:
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Hum, okay, maybe I do that plus Yates.
I have never had fruit from a hybrid.
Just know people are complaining about tannins not ripening!
And Iām being told my tannin ripening methods donāt work on hybrids.