I received a request a few weeks ago to add an “organic” category that I am going to take up with the admins once I am somewhat less busy. One goal of that is to give a space where organic folks don’t have to feel like they have to defend their practices and can instead focus on discussing how to succeed with organic methods.
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Given the number of threads on pruning, a separate category for it might be helpful too.
people who don’t use pesticides do not have to wear haz-mat suits and never burdened with pesticide calculation errors, so there’s no need to defend such practice from a health standpoint
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It makes me a bit sad to think of organics as a unique category here, because I perceive it as indicating there are encampments of either/or that require separate territories. The effort to create a safe haven might actually become a barrier, or at least a speed bump, to discussions of the spectrum of options in finding the least negatively impactful methods for success under a variety of conditions.
I find it most helpful when a discussion includes respectfully offered options and considerations from a range of views, and would prefer that we continue to improve the atmosphere that makes that type of earnest discussion possible and productive.
My opinion is colored by my own experience of feeling like a failure after so easily being able to grow ‘beyond organically’ in SoCal, then having Nature laugh at my attempts to do the same in the southeast. It was only by reading the input of a range of options that I was able to start getting that declining production turned around. That was only after reaching the point of several years of zero harvestable fruit. I feel that type of broad range of discussion is vital to my own continued improvement. I thank you for providing this venue where such discussions take place.
Productive and respectful discussions that include organic methods do take place here. It is the handful of occasions among the many productive ones where some members have either violated the TOS, or prodded others into doing so, that stand out in people’s minds.
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I agree with MM completely and find it a bit inaccurate to suggest organic growers get bashed on some one way street of mistreatment.
The defensiveness and dismissiveness comes from both sides, believe me. I applaud Scott’s effort to provide a “safe zone” but I regret that anyone feels it is necessary on this forum. I’d rather we reserve the entire forum for those with confidence enough in their methods and beliefs to expose them to everyone on the forum and to be exposed to counter views and opinions.
As someone who tries to shed some light on what I consider to be mythologies embraced by many consumers of “all organic”, I apologize if my assertions seem overly aggressive. I have never intended any disrespect and such comments represent a tiny percentage of my input on this forum.
I don’t have negative feelings if someone decides to grow organic, but those of us who find it practical to apply some synthetic intervention to succeed at the challenges of growing fruit have just as much reason to be proud of our efforts, and should not have to be burdened with excessive if not imaginary fears about the health risks involved with some responsible synthetic intervention.
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Muddy, its a very easy thing to do, to create a category for Organic growers, as we have lost really good and nice people in this forum for comments against their opinions. The opposing opinions were so strong as to be considered rude. This would be a good ‘compromise’, as many a good forum or group of people can create a solution that is not sad, but beneficial to people who do not think as you or Alan do. (not about organic growing but about barriers) There are no barriers created, just a space where opinions can be typed, just like these words of mine. There is a category for using fruit as food, and not everyone here wants to hear about recipes. It simply suits a number of people that like to cook. A new organic category hurts no one or the forum and only does good. It makes room for everyone.
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I use both organic and inorganic methods. It makes me sad that a few folks chose to belittle organic growers, and it also makes me sad that a few organic growers are inflamed by the mere mention of an inorganic approach.
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While I know the plural of “anecdote” isn’t “data”, I do want to point out that I’ve asked some awfully dumb questions with limited knowledge referencing my own efforts to be as organic as possible in my backyard, and I’ve gotten a lot of very helpful, very informative responses that cited their sources.
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Off Topic - I happen to appreciate when people ask what they think are dumb questions. It usually means one less question that I have to ask, myself. 
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I like the two mixed together. My fruit are mostly organic but if I can’t rationally defend my reasons for doing something it is best that I get called out on it. Sometime it is hard to separate what I think/hope caused a reaction and what can be defended through careful studies. My goal is to be completely organic but I’m not there yet. I like all opinions as I can sort the good from the bad. Bill
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That’s why I love this forum, you all answered all my dumb questions from day one and no one ever made me feel bad or offended me about asking!!! And trust me, there will be more to come I assure you! 
Although I have learned a wealth of gardening knowledge and I am every so grateful for it, I feel ok in asking because I know that no one knows everything. This forum inspires me so much and I truly feel like you guys are my gardening family. 
Sure, there will always be differences of opinions about how we do “our thing when it comes to growing stuff” but that is what makes life interesting; various outputs & opinions. I am glad that we have a variety of expert , medium and new growers and this keeps things lively. We just have to remember that respect for each others viewpoint and methods are what is important…
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Hah, hah, well said, Muddy! I feel exactly the same way 
“Gee, SO glad that person asked that question!”
I think we should allow folks to integrate their organic questions anywhere in any subject thread. I think if we all are respectful, and allow respectful discourse, what difference should it make if someone has made a personal decision to use something non-organic vs. organic? Pest pressures vary widely across the country, and I wouldn’t want to pass judgement on anyone’s methods. For example, out here, really about the only issue we have with stone fruits and pomes are PLC, SH, and FB. But on the other hand, I cannot grow heirloom tomatoes due to heavy multiple pest pressure issues (wilts, anything fungal). And, have to seriously manage for phytophthora, which can cause catastrophic and sudden death in certain susceptible plants. So, we’re not as disease-free as some folks in other areas might think in all things. So, I have personally made the decision that some things just aren’t worth growing, but other things are worth some degree of non-organic management. Everyone has their own personal choices to make, and I think we should make the effort to respect those. Golden Rule should apply
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I agree sound advice, as I try to grow as organic as possible. i do use synthetics too, although I would love a spot where I could look for possible alternatives.
I also have to say both sides have a point about the abuse it comes from both sides. Numerous examples abound on this site. That has to stop. Not sure it is even possible to stop it? Good luck on whatever decision is made.
Hey Richard, good to hear from you again, yes exactly what happens on both sides. Very well said. Some come off as offensive and don’t even know it, Myself included.
An area with organic advice would be welcome by me.
Well you might curse me too if it does not go well! Great tomato BTW!
. Dale (the podpiper) is also a member here and has ton’s of experience. He is down river. He came over about a month ago, great guy! We had a blast! Gave me some excellent pruning advice as we walked through my small garden.
Good to hear from you!
Drew
Once again, a comment suggesting non- organic growers often make aggressive remarks at least on the cusp of rudeness while gentile and polite organic growers turn their cheeks and flee from the forum because of their hurt feelings. This doesn’t seem very flattering to either side.
I can immediately recall several examples of organic growers showing intolerance to growers that use synthetic inputs, even within the last couple of weeks.
I think we can do this without the suggestion that one side or the other has been the offending party here, especially with broad generalizations devoid of specific example. .
I also feel that folks too sensitive to withstand ;remarks that are contrary to their thinking aren’t important members of this forum to me. I’m not here to maintain a social club. I’m here to learn and teach. The exchange of ideas can sometimes feel brutal when you can’t defend your position, but that’s life in academia and I hope it’s life here.
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If Academics had half the thick skin and honest bluntness, coupled with the willingness to explore new ideas (at least if they have good early reports), as the farmers and arborists here seem to have, I think our institutions would be in a much better shape.
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We did this exact same exercise in my government class when I was in high school! That was probably in 2001.
We had a somewhat unconventional teacher though. I don’t remember the other government classes doing that.
I have to agree with Alan…
Almost anything one says can offend someone’s sensibilities.
How far must we each take this into account and modify our thoughts and speech in order to avoid all manner of discomfort in another before we become mind numbed lumps of protoplasm. How little self confidence to be offended by what someone writes on a fruit forum?
Not every opinion deserves praise, not every opinion deserves scorn but every opinion needs to be aired even if only to be ignored or dismissed most unceremoniously, even this one.
Mike
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It’s sad to think how very different the Academic folks you refer to are from the vast majority of those I know from my 3 decade experience in University and Corporate applied research.
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i guess it is a reaction if one’s livelihood is being scrutinized/doubted. And understandably, there’s no worse publicity than in a fruit forum. If growing fruits is impossible without pesticides, or said another way–if nobody among us can grow fruits successfully without using pesticides, then there won’t be any arguments/hurt feelings about discussing the possible health risks of eating fruits sprayed with pesticides, because there is no other recourse of what could be considered a ‘lesser evil’… It just so happened that there are farmers who can actually grow fruits organically(the lucky ones in certain regions of usa),and they are getting in the gig quite rapidly-- as evidently organic vs conventional is an on-going battle for position, and while conventional farmers are still ‘top dog’ in numbers, the recent surge of the organic farming industry is heating up the competition. Even walmart and dollar stores are selling organic nowadays…
http://www.cias.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/growing-demand.pdf
personally, i will eat/serve fruits sprayed with pesticides(be it synthetic or organic), but not as much nor as often as those without. And generally, not as much as those which have the least residues, especially those i could peel-- like bananas and many tropical fruits.
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