JUJU you are an organic enthusiast quite willing to engage with other points of view and I find your comments thoughtful and useful, even when they contradict my own, or more so because they do.
One thing that makes a forum like this valuable is exposure to different perspectives. I don’t want us organizing into different groups like separate ethnicities at a party (I don’t like that either, or when, in my wife’s ethnicity, the males and females form entirely separate groups at social events.
If you communicate with only like minded people you don’t learn nearly as much and things are much less interesting.
I am being unkind, there’s plenty of good research done. I apologize for being harsh, but consider it more a compliment to the good sense of those with active minds here.
yes, i am a bit guarded about conventional pesticides, but does not necessarily equate to being an organic enthusiast. I am vigilant about organic pesticides too, like pyrethrin, and will have to engage and add caution to any organic enthusiasts’ public claim saying pyrethrin is ‘totally safe’, even though i see it posing less risks for human health as well as for the environment. Thus said, my stance will not sit well with conventional farmers, and will not sit well with organic farmers either-- unless the organic farmer uses absolute-zero pesticides(no pyrethrins whatsoever).
i really don’t see any reason why it should be separated, but am fine with secessionists too, anything goes…
and if that should happen, i admit i will be ‘double-dipping’(and besides-- if i were in a party, why should anyone ban me from mingling with the ladies?)
i agree. This is not a religious congregation or a presidential campaign meet, where it will be rude for anybody to crash into and voice one’s displeasure or cast one’s doubts about the religion or the candidate. We are all orchardists here from all over america(and even from all over the world)so we have different experiences, approaches and rationales.
Reminds me of the early days. I use to use Bulletin board systems before the internet to talk to people all over the world. Messages took about 2 weeks to bounce from one home computer to another etc, etc. When the internet came about there were three major parts. The world wide web, FTP, and Usenet. Some of the flame wars on Usenet were of historic proportions. Email bombing, Trojan horses and other malware was often sent to shut down the other side. Ever been email bombed? i was once and received 20 thousand emails. True trolls lurked on Usenet in it’s heyday. Then came hackers, these folks were and still are scary. . I no longer participate in the newsgroups. I never liked them compared to Fidonet which was an international message board for bulletin board systems. I was Cosysop of “The Flying Circus” Out of Royal Oak MI. I miss the simple ANSI graphics. Even the ASCII graphics were amazing. I miss those daze! You need to run in DOS mode to see true splendor of that old school artwork.
In ANSI, you only had 16 colors, as that is all the first computers would display. It worked by displaying a color block instead of a number or letter. It was extremely primitive, as were the first computers. My first hard drive was a whopping 16MB’s!
Here’s an example of ANSI (converted to jpg to display on modern computers) Original size of this graphic was about 64kb.
A little off subject, my point being things are great here compared to how bad it used to be in other places. We are extremely civil even in the worst incidents on this forum. It could be a lot worse. It’s not really bad here in any way.
Yes, and I used to tie my phone up and have outrageous phone bills with my modem connecting constantly. Real 5 inch floppy discs too, wow, that was a million years ago!
It’s amazing we could do so much with so little to work with. I have a 3.5 inch drive with a USB connection. I saved most of my files from that era. I have them stored on Burnable Blu-ray discs.
Well disc as less than one disc was needed to store them all!
My first exposure to computers was a class at MSU in 1976. At that time the huge room sized computer ran the light and heat in all University buildings. I made the punch cards to make programs. Ah the gold old days!
I beat you by a year or two Drew, we had a computer in my high school in 1974. Some local company donated their old one, an NCR mainframe. The hard drives looked like washing machines but only stored 5MB each.
OK guys, time to start another special topic- computer nostalgia for fruit growers. I spent my teen years trying to master a 19th century musical instrument- although one of my friends at Cal Arts was amongst the first to own a MOOG synthesizer- kind of a musical computer.
I love this forum and find it mostly friendly and a lot of fun. But another issue that can get a person flamed on many forums is mentioning alternative ways of dealing with mammalian competitors for fruit harvests. I realize that the issue is different for those trying to make a living producing fruit than for the backyard grower, and I know there are no easy answers. I also know that some with a background in vegetarianism and animal rights (a background I share) are unable to have a relaxed discussion with those who don’t share their views, and so may have a bad reputation for civil discussion. But I’d like to join those lamenting the old-fashioned debate classes, and extend it to the fact that ethics is no longer a required class, or subject with which people have any conversational fluency ! It really IS possible to discuss values, and the behaviors that make sense based on those values, while still understanding that people have different values, and different ideas about what those values require in the manner of behaviors. Instead, these days, people who mention an ethical issue for discussion are immediately presumed to be “lording it over” others, or seen as assaulting others’ values. In fact, it is possible to approach ethics with a spirit of learning and inquiry. I often ponder what I’d do about critters if I had a big orchard from which I HAD to produce good fruit. But I would be surprised if I were able to ask those questions on this forum without tempers flaring. If I’m wrong, and people would be open to such a discussion, that would be wonderful! But regardless of the reception I might get, I hope you all understand that I may occasionally pipe up with a debatable, potentially effective way of dealing with some animal problems. I bring this up because this thread seems like a very mutually respectful context, and I deeply respect the folks on it! I hope you can deal with me and my beliefs too.
Okay, so my computer story: Was hired in college (mid '70’s) by IBM in their college internship program between my Junior and Senior year. Worked in their largest division - DP (Data Processing) for a couple of years. I was there when the 088 chip was invented that took main frames from taking up 3 floors of a building (middle floor for the mainframe, upper floor for all the air con units, bottom floor for all the cabling), to a main frame the size of your office desk. Turned computers on their ears. And, there when IBM decided that it made more sense to develop their electronic typewriters, than make a home computer (“what individual would ever want a computer in their home, or ever be able to learn how to use one!?!”) And, back in 1973, while at UC Irvine, my dad, who helped start the Sigma Chi chapter there, helped out the teeny tiny budding Computer Science department develop what is now called a UPS (uninterruptible power supply). The computer geeks had a power outage one evening, and it erased all their data on tape. It took them two weeks to get everything back up and running. My dad figured out how to capture the power loss in an endless loop, and have a back up generator turn on and run for 3 minutes. Enough time for the geeks to shut down their mainframes and not lose data. Too bad he never patented it! If anyone has seen the show “Halt & Catch Fire” on AMC, I lived through that. I lived computer history, it was way cool.
I haven’t read the entirety of this thread but I wanted to make a few short comments. Since we are discussing board culture, this is directed to the board as a whole and nobody in particular:
Please can we not embrace political correctness? Seriously it will just kill the board. Political correctness is just used to “win” arguments by silencing opponents. If you don’t have an argument, just insult them. Maybe call someone “racist” - you’ll win automatically. We should be able to have free and open discussion on here without needing to self-censor out of fear of being called out for saying something that someone takes personal offence to - that just inhibits discussion. It also takes away a human element - I’ve seen a couple posts on here that are somewhat politically incorrect but I really don’t care - it adds humour and it’s a product of people being people.
If you read or see something you don’t like on here (unless it’s illegal) then self-moderate by ignoring it. Don’t respond to it and Don’t take it personally. There are people elsewhere on the web who will make posts or message specifically to get a reaction - these people are known as “trolls” and by responding to them you’re just giving them what they want. Never feed the trolls.
Grow a thicker skin. If you post on here, be prepared to receive criticism from people who disagree with you. Be aware also that many of those people have been growing for decades and are collectively much more knowledgeable than you. If you post something technical you should be able to back it up with some kind of source, or-else be criticized for making wild claims. This forum shouldn’t be a personal safe space, we are all adults here and should be able to handle the criticism.
If someone insults you, again, Don’t Feed The Trolls. Just laugh it off. If it really gets at you, go do something from your To-Do list that you should have already done in your garden today instead of posting a reply.
You can take a personal pleasure that the work you’re doing instead of replying means you will have fresh fruit later in the season - the troll who insults you probably is spending most of his time posting insults on the internet instead of working on his garden - so he is missing out.
In general you should be careful about what you post online. In the pictures section for example I saw pictures posted by some members of themselves and also of their family members. If you choose to post pictures of yourself - ok - but don’t forget that this website is public and those pictures are easily accessible - I think people should be more cautious about posting such things so publicly. I know a lot of members on here are friends, some have even met up. If you want to share family photos that’s fine but you should do so privately for their sake.
Stay on topic in threads as much as possible. Personal anecdotes can be fine if it contributes in some way but if someone is consistently posting off-topic it can derail discussion.
I still like the sound of those. George Duke while with Frank Zappa played one in 1973-75 and nobody could come close to his skills with the machine.
Some new bands are using them again. They still sound extremely unique!
Wow, what’s it going to be like in another 40 years? When people look at present day as a dated nostalgic era. I probably won’t know as I will be 99 in 40 years.
Good story Patty. Your post made me think of how I made a small fortune in the stock market in technology. Big Blue IBM, Which meant No. 1 blue chip stock! I made so much money on Dell computers when they first came out. And also on AOL the first ISP for home internet access. I need to find stocks like that again. Currently my money is in Apple, but Apple without Steve Jobs, is just not the same. Long term projections look bad. Well once a company is so big you can’t make money anyway. I hope Uber goes public. That is one stock that would probably bust out.
and by responding to them you’re just giving them what they want. Never feed the trolls.