Yes, and some of us make claims I find questionable so I ask questions. Still trying to find out how you came up with your comments about fire blight- but you never bothered to clarify your statements which did contradict the general literature as I understand it. I’m only trying to help keep this forum a source of genuine information and I hope you want the same thing.
If someone believes something based on anecdotal observation, I’m fine with that-as long as it is stated as such, but how is that the case in any of the questions I’ve brought up lately?
Fruit trees take up pesticide via their roots and it ends up in the fruit?- that is quite a claim and I think many folks on this forum would like it clarified. I know I would. You yourself said there was more residue in organic fruit than conventional (and I’d like a link verifying that as well since it is not something that an experienced grower is likely to verify via that experience- aren’t you curious about how that claim could be true?).
Let’s try to keep this real and not some bar where people just share stray opinions. If that is what it becomes, I’m gone.
Alan, do you still drive open cab spraying tractors while spraying? Good luck.
No Alan, you stay here, I am gone. You don’t like me on this forum, no problem to go on my own. You are reading too much.
Lets all take it easy. Alan likes evidence and that’s ok with me. I like to take in the experience of everyone here which is vast. I enjoy all of the experience available here. Everyone in this discussion has valuable information. Alan has been a great long time contributor to this message board and I appreciate his info especially his spraying schedule. Many, MANY people have benefited by this info both members of this forum and average google searchers.
If someone doesn’t like to spray chemicals on their orchard for any reason, that is just fine with me. I believe there are really no long term harms from using modern insecticides and fungicides, but if you do, go ahead and do no spray, or go organic. Lots of low impact spray schedules in the guides too.
Lets have fun here.
aap, why do you think I don’t like you on this forum? Questions are not insults and I’m sorry I worded mine with a level of ironic disbelief, but that was my honest first reaction.
I’m happy for you to be here, but please don’t think it insulting if I question a statement you make- I’ve been pulling my living out of the soil for over half a century and I started out a religiously organic grower- I simply changed my views over time based on my own judgement. I encourage my own customers that want to grow organic to do so and I try to help them succeed from that angle, but they still have to hear my opinion on the subject- lucky for me most don’t take it as an insult.
Unfortunately, organic growing in the northeast isn’t simple and, so far, hasn’t been as productive, all in all, as what I can get with a very reduced spray program- especially as far as bang for the buck, but also bushels per tree of useable fruit.
However, some people are fine with less sound fruit, and a lot more work to get it, and as long as they are enjoying their trees and fruit I am happy.
Incidentally, I don’t own a tractor or any heavy equipment. I am the most primitive of farmers and only use hand tools, a weed whacker, a chain saw and a truck- fortunately, when you grow bearing age fruit trees for sale it’s possible to make money without heavy equipment- it is only a part of my business- most of it is tending the fruit trees after I’ve installed them on other people’s property.
2/3rds of the spraying is done by other contractors- I do everything else, especially pruning.
Yes, a 25 gallon on bicycle wheels Rears. I forgot about that- it’s my most important piece of power equipment besides maybe the weed whacker in my nursery. I Have two and recently had my original one rebuilt so it’s the one I’ve used this season.
Anyone know what the deal is with the 28-day pre-harvest interval of Avaunt on pears? Everything else sprayed with Avaunt has a 14-day PHI, and I am used to most other insecticides being 7-day.
I picked some early-season Ubileen pear 20 days after spraying. Oops!
This is not for commercial sale but for personal consumption. Do I throw them out, or can I eat them if I don’t make a habit of this?
Avaunt isn’t a systemic insecticide as far as I know so you should just wash them well. The rules are difficult to understand sometimes, but it may have something to do with the fact that it isn’t used on pears so close to harvest because it isn’t needed at that time- what pests were you gunning for?
Most states have pesticide inspection programs where commercial fruit is tested for improper pesticide use. I was told by the inspector that they have the ability to determine what chemicals were sprayed, if the labeled rate was exceeded and how long ago it was sprayed. In my state a person who does not identify themselves picks up the fruit and sends it to the lab. The grower does not know about the tests unless they indicate that the label requirements were violated. I got this information from the pesticide inspector when another local grower sold fruit that failed the test.
I don’t know if what you were told is true or not, but what I said is true. Now with DDT it was once and done.
I’m not familiar with the technology used to regulate pesticide use but I’ve never heard a commercial grower talking about that kind of enforcement and I live in NYS- one of the strictest states in the country. You got any other sources? I’d be interested.
What I can say is that I have on several occassions found out about major tree care companies that do things like use a pesticide not labeled for edible crops on apple trees and I’ve never heard of any kind of enforcement for that. What I hear about is less sophisticated enforcement like folks without identity on a truck as a spray applicator being busted when a DEC agent sees some kind of spray equipment in an unmarked truck.
I’ve also heard of DEC agents going to commercial orchards and running tests on the trees to see what’s been sprayed. Not individual pieces of fruit though.
While I don’t have any proof about the random residue tests I did experience a random inspection to review my spray records. My spray records were in compliance and I learned that my beard required me to have a respirator fit test performed each year. I believe that was a mandatory OSHA requirement… Solved the problem by buying a powered pesticide helmet which did not require the fit test. I always wear Tyvek coveralls and use the pesticide helmet when I spray even if the label does not require it.
The pear tree was showing blackened leaves. I applied foliar iron sulfate in case the loss of leaf color was a nutritional deficiency, and I mixed Avaunt, the orchard insecticide I have on hand, in case it was a mite flare-up. Otherwise, if I spray my pear trees, I spray them “once and done” early in the season.
Avaunt is supposed to be absorbed in the leaves and is supposed to be effective on whatever feeds on the leaves. The word used is “trans-laminar.”
The tree is doing better after my guesswork-emergency treatment, and I always prioritize the health of the tree over whatever crop I can get one season from one tree.
As discussed much earlier on this thread, Avaunt doesn’t have “kick back” the way Imidan and Assail does of “curing” fruit after oviposition. Reading the product label carefully, it indicates that it is only effective against adults that ingest it, I guess not on their larvae inside the fruit.
I am OK with either peeling the pears or even discarding the small amount I picked last weekend. This is for personal consumption, only, but I don’t want to expose myself unnecessarily to pesticide residue of an agent that the label claims has “good residual activity.”
Used a full face mask before the powered helmet to protect my eyes. Always had a problem with it fogging up but never had a fog problem with the helmet. I may not be so careful if I was not spraying with an airblast sprayer. Occasionally the wind can shift and blow the spray in your face.
I used to know a commercial grower that stored pesticides right next to his commercial cider press- just on tables, not closed cabinets. I always wondered why he was so confident he wouldn’t be inspected. I always assumed NYS had some of the toughest enforcement, but maybe N. Carolina has more.
I don’t worry about a little contact with pesticide such as some spray hitting my face, because farmers in general live so much longer lives than other people in there states, are much healthier and live a lot longer. I try to focus on elements that I believe matter much more- like cardio-vascular exercise, a good diet and handling stress well.
The best way to handle stress is to get paid to do something you love for a living, IMO.
I’m most concerned about getting fungicides that are known to cause eye damage like Captan into my eyes. Some things we spray require more PPE than others so I always use a Tyvek suit and pesticide helmet to simplify everything. One less thing to worry about when I start spraying as the sun is starting to come up early in the morning.
Laws maybe but I’m not sure about enforcement. I have very little experience with enforcement of insecticide regulations but I’ve been recreational saltwater fishing for decades privately and with charter captains and my observation is that the DEC is very understaffed and possibly poorly trained in NY.
