Leading up to a grafting class I gave I was terrified somebody would gash themselves. So to get reassurance, I talked to my friend Larry in Mississippi who does lots of classes. He said “Well, yeah, last class I gave we had to call an ambulance- a student, a medical doctor no less, slashed herself bad, we couldn’t stop the bleeding.” I said- “Thanks, Larry.” LOL.
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$4 at Harbor Freight
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John… hope you get well soon.
Use a knife or any sharp instrument long enough and in varied situations and you are going to get cut sometime…
I used a hatchet for two years… 8 hours a day… working for a timber co doing reforestation… have a nice scar on my right knee to remind me of that time. On the back swing… hung a wild grape vine and caused my hatchet to glance off the tree and just miss my knee cap as it came to rest there.
At least with a grafting knife you should have had a pretty clean cut and you could easily get to the care you needed.
Back in the mid 80s… i was on a 14 mile float on the duck river… with my trapping partner… he used his pocket knife to open can of jack mackerel… and slipped and burried a 3" blade into his forearm (completely).
We had 8 hours of river before reaching our take out place. We wrapped it good in strips of long johns… the bleeding stopped… we set traps the rest of the day… got home around 8 pm.
Yes… it could have been worse.
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You could use a bagel or a donut too.
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I hope you are doing well Jhon. And are recovering oky.
And thanks for sharing, hopefully some-one else can learn from you sharing this and thus avoid cutting themselves.
if taught 30+ people how to graft. And i always spend 60+% of the time on safe cutting techniques.
Gloves are not as safe as you might think.
I have a pair of 4X43D gloves. But after looking up reviews online. And seeing multiple video’s online like this one
i searched further and looked at the standard.
The old standard looked at how many times a knife needed to pass to cut trough. At level 4 you need 10 passes with the knife. That seems very impressive. Until you read that it is at 5 newtons of applied force on the knife. 5 newtons is roughly a pound. And i think it would be safe to assume
a- our grafting knifes are probably sharper than the knives from the test.
b- we apply more than a pound of force on the knife. (especially in instances where you cut yourself)
hopeful the newer standard was harder (ANSI test (TDM-100).) i searched for that.
And cut resistance level D you cut trough at 15 newtons of force. Roughly 1.5kg or 3 pounds weight thus. (probably lower with a super sharp grafting knife) (and i know interchanging force and weight is wrong. But for most people newtons are hard to imagine)
My conclusion. Those gloves might protect you against small nicks. But don’t get overconfident with them.
Id rather focus time and money on a properly sharpened knife and the right technique. Than a false sense of security!
sources
(dutch)
I think having the right technique. And quitting when you get tired or your hands get cold are the best advice.
is excellent for looking at safer technique’s.
Rocking the blade sideways with little pressure and locking thumbs for the tongue cut is always valuable.
For chip budding and cutting the tongue part of W&T all the force should come from the muscle between your thumb and index finger of your knife hand. You should not use your arms to exert any force. And your thumbs should be locked.
i copied technique’s that professional grafters used. I think they find/learn technique’s that are safe and reliable. Since cutting themselves during grafting season would be a real problem. And they have to do 1000’s of grafts.
They stil tape their thumbs sometimes. Even with the right technique, you might want to protect your thumb. From buds/nodes rubbing against them when cutting the splice part of the W&T graft. Or from shallow cuts/nicks when chip budding/tongue cuts.
in the end you should do what you are comfortable with though.
always scares the crap out of me. When i see him cutting. But i think it’s safe to call him a grafting expert. Cutting technique’s i would never attempt seem to work fine for him.
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If you graft enough, it happens A slip of the Grafting knife 2020 . Some types of grafting are more dangerous than others. You were doing one of the most dangerous types @John_P .
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Thank you for the reminder and hopefully your hand recovers fully and quickly @John_P!
Surely you aren’t saying that you finished doing the graft when you cut yourself? That would be impressive commitment!
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@MikeC I checked the link I provided and it’s the correct glove. Note they come in several sizes so make sure you get the right size if you decide to buy a pair.
You can check this on the linked page. You will see the ANSI cut rating is in the second entry down in the second column. The gloves are ANSI/ISEA Cut Level A4.
Here is a link that explains the ANSI rating system.
The gloves provide quite bit of protection but they don’t make you invincible. I think wearing them gives you a good level of protection. I would caution anyone to make sure you get gloves that are rated by the ANSI or En388 rating systems- being labelled “cut resistant” doesn’t mean much. When I was searching for gloves generally increased rating = increased price. I. E. you get what you pay for generally.
I would also look at grafting jigs. I purchased one but I think a handy person could easily make one. They reduce the risk of injury considerably, With mine you don’t use a knife to make cuts instead you use a wood chisel and the wood chisel moves away from your body when performing the cut. The jig is for whip and tongue grafting.
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Thank you so much for all your responses and new tips I really appreciate it.
Yeah that is so true , if you do something so many times you’ll end up hurting yourself. But this wound came from new graft technique that I never tried.
@swincher yeah that was my mistake. I should have stopped what I was doing, i think i made the wound bigger because i finished the graft first before tending myself
Wound down below.
Left thumb wound took 2 weeks to heal trying chip budding for the first time.
2nd finger with not so deep cut but bleeds with pressure.
4th finger is so deep I can see the joint when i flex my finger.
I will start using gloves after this incident, the wound is 8 inches away from the radial artery which is still possible to injure yourself.
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Ugh… That made me cringe. So sorry this happened to you, John.
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As a retired RN, I have to point out your index finger (with white covering) looks very swollen. I am concerned that you might have an infection in it.
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Easy not to cut yourself while grafting. Don’t point the knife to a place if you slipped you would cut yourself.
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I did something similar in 2015. It was the first time I had rootstock, and I tried cutting a cleft in one. The carpet/utility blade went through and put a nice cut across my ring finger knuckle. It is just a small scar now, but took four stitches to close it then.
Glad your healing, and it wasnt worse.
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OMG, such a serious cut. Hope you have a speedy recovery ! It is good that you shared it with rest of us here. I hope most of us will take necessary precaution and avoid accident during the grafting
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What’s the difference between a sharp knife and a super sharp knives. One of the more important Reason, the veins needs to be sheared off very clean. Veins should not be compressed shut.
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I feel that is easier said than done, especially when certain grafting methods are most efficient and effective when holding the knife very close to your hands. Add a learning curve and it’s easy to make a mistake.
I usually only have time for grafting at night once I’m already exhausted from a long day at work, so safety and methodical cuts are needed, even using a v-cut tool.
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Hit some soft wood once on a rootstock pear tree it cut like butter clipped 3 fingers. Would post pictures, but it might turn some stomachs. Like i said, things happen if you do hundreds of field grafts, your odds of nicking yourself increase. It can happen if i dont feel good or if i get distracted. In theory, that never should happen, but i dont have all good days. The first cuts and last cuts of the day i watch myself.
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I have a scar I have been looking at since I was 10 years old(68 now) and cut my thumb right thru the nail with a pocket knife and 7 stitches. I usually like to tee bud and have done it 1,000 times with no cuts. Have been whip/tongue in last few years on persimmon. I carefully rock the knife back and forth while cutting tongue.
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That’s a more succinct version of what I tried to say.
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What sorts of grafts are you thinking about?
I always hold the knife very close to my hands. I consider that necessary for control. It sounds like there’s some miscommunication or misapprehension going on.
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