Best japanese plums for mild winter/summer climate

General Fruit Growing
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Hello!

I’m pretty much a novice when it comes to growing fruit trees, so I could use a little advice if anyone is willing! For starters, I’m looking to plant three Japanese plum trees on my property, but I’m not certain what would be the best varieties to go with. I live in Western Washington (Skagit County) and we have fairly mild winters, as well as mild summers (which likely makes pluots and some other hybrids an unrealistic hope). A few characteristics that I am looking for in these plum trees are:

-highly vigorous/productive (I don’t mind pruning)
-very good for fresh eating
-At least one of the three plum types should be freestone or semi-freestone (for canning purposes)
-reliable (i.e. doesn’t have a biennial tendency)

Some of the varieties that I have in mind are Methley, Shiro, Beauty, Hollywood (for canning), Nadia Plum Cherry, and Sweet Treat Pluerry (since Raintree Nursery insists it’s one of the few interspecific hybrids that produces well in WA State).

As much as I would love to plant a Pluot like Flavor King, I worry that Western Washington’s mild summers would be an issue. Has anyone in a mild climate like Western Washington had success with pluots?

If you could only plant three Japanese plums in my kind of climate, what would those three be?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

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Hello! Welcome to the forums :heart:
Methley, Hollywood, Nadia

And hello from Thurston county!
I would not recommend rain tree at all for a nursery unless they have something that you can’t find anywhere else. Nurseries in the PNW that’s worth a visit and that i would recommend:

Restoring Eden - I swear I’m not biased just because i get special treatment :rofl:

Burnt Ridge Nursery - really knowledgeable owners, ships quickly and easy to get a hold of as well.

Whipple Creek in Toledo - really kind people overall. Not as easy to get a hold of as the other 2 above but all of the plants I inspected at their place were healthy and overall content/happy

One Green World - worth a visit if you can. Also really great people and happy plants. Easy to talk to if/when things go wrong as well.

Personally, i order a lot so it’s only a matter of time before I’ll have an issue here or there. All of the above have been great with customer service and order issues. Fast shipping as well although I’ve not had an online order with Whipple Creek before so i do not know how they do with shipping things.

Zenith Holland in Des Moines is a great nursery as well but I don’t think they ship things. They had a lot of uncommon varieties of trees and berries last I checked. Great people as well. Worth a visit.

I’ve had a lot of issues with RainTree as a nursery. From being chastised when sent obvious dead trees, to being hassled when I asked for a refund for them. To them holding my shipments 2+ months after the ship date that it said on the website until I called my card company to reverse charges. Also their phone number only goes to voicemail these days and they stop responding to emails after they get annoyed of you. Plus they hold trees for too long before shipment so they may or may not be dead by the time it gets to you. And if something isn’t in stock to ship, you won’t know until all the orders have gone out before they cancel your order and send you an email a month afterwards to tell you that your order has been canceled and payment has been sent in the form of store credit :melting_face:instead of back to your card… my very first order was of 4 trees and 3 came dead on arrival. The one alive struggled for 2 years before i decided to just let it die. Up to you if you want to risk going through what i went through but out of all the nurseries i do business with, they all seem to like me or tolerate me to say the least except RainTree. You can search up their name or browse through my posts to see others who’ve echoed my issues in RainTree Refusing to Ship. I don’t know how many places I’ve ordered from but I have to say that there’s only been 2 places that I haven’t been happy with, one of them is RT. The other is probably my fault because the trees came heavily diseased but I guess I didn’t do enough research because that ones probably on me. I’m not going to say the name on here since they’re not as big of a nursery but their shipping and customer service was great until i received the plants. I just didn’t bother to contact them after since they’re a much smaller nursery and I’m hoping the plants will just recover after the winter. This nursery also isn’t in or around the PNW so they won’t be named. But Raintree, just beware of their shipping policy.

This is my experience from the pnw nurseries I’ve been to or haunt from time to time.

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Also at Restoring Eden, you can pick the trees you want. They also have a loyalty program and discount programs as well :grin: and if you help sell other plants while you’re there, they may even give you another discount if the right people hear it :sweat_smile:

Their bare root trees come in February :face_in_clouds:

Oh i forgot Kent East Hill Nursery and Todd’s Nursery in Puyallup. However Kent East Hill has higher prices than all of the nurseries I’ve seen so far and although they have some really awesome people, sometimes their trees come with diseases that i haven’t seen in other nurseries here. But if you need certain things, they can order them for you as well when other nurseries can’t.

Todd’s nursery also has great prices on citrus when they have their sales and each year, they have a huge 40% off sale. However, they’re a little pricey as well, almost equivalent to Kent East Hill.

One Green World will give you fig cuttings from their established trees and will even let you pick the figs if you ask :face_holding_back_tears: they also have in person discounts as well and some things not listed on their websites. They even offered me more cuttings than I had expected when i was there :heart:

You need to call and make an appointment to visit Whipple Creek or let them know you’re stopping by. The nursery is on their home property and they have puppies so a heads up is needed.

Burnt Ridge is open to the public during business hours. The old dude that works there is really knowledgeable about grafting and that sorts. Great to learn from, he has a lot of knowledge on a lot of things pertaining to fruit trees and berries. They have an elderly dog too so please be very careful when you get into the parking lot :heart: she’s a sweetheart and very chill.

Zenith Holland is visit only, no shipping.

Johnsons Home and Garden in Maple Valley has the best prices on potting soil unless you’re a veteran, then McLendon’s on Memorial and Veteran’s Day will get you 20% off everywhere in store.

Kent East Hill will order you specialty mixes and things if you ask nicely. This is the only place i can get part of my citrus mix at.

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First of all, I would like to know what any grower likes in a plum. I would say that more than half of the people I’ve provided a range of plums for like larger plums with high sugar, also ones that don’t form fruit like grape bunches and require a lot of thinning to get high quality plums. Some like meaty plums, some like plums that are explosively juicy and some do want a more acidic plum with a good amount of tartness.

Many prefer syrupy European plums over the juicier J’s.

Personally, I enjoy a wide range of qualities from plums and pluots. For a firm plum with highest brix, nothing beats some of the best pluots like Flavor King or Flavor Gem. For plums in that category, I enjoy what I consider the Queen of the J’s, Elephant Heart, although, in my NY climate it is not a very reliable cropper.

If you like to use plums for culinary purposes, a good one is Ruby Queen with its black purple flesh- I think it is also outstanding when it finally ripens on the tree. If you like the quality of Elephant Heart but not its inconsistent cropping, Satsuma is a good pick.

Here in the east Reema, is a very good mid-season plum and a good Santa Rosa has a wonderful balance of tartness and sweet. If you like baseball sized and meaty plums, Ozark Premier is a very underrated plum IMO.

At the moment, my brain is too cloudy to remember the names of all the plums I grow but I will be back to add a couple other varieties to my list of recs. I am sure others here will do the same.

I will say that Methely is not a great plum to my own palate and doesn’t tend to be highly rated on this forum, but it can be quite good as most can be when properly thinned and ripened.

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PNW folks really liked it a few years ago it seems.

Even Leaders like it

This forum is scattered with many more positive reviews… but also some bad reviews with issues of black knot in some areas as well as some other issues. Hard to find any bad reviews or negative talk on those that have obtained ripened fruit.

But Methley may not really be classified as a Japanese plum… supposedly Methley plum is a hybrid between P. salicina and P. cerasifera from South Africa.

Some people refer to Methley as Sugar plum and others lump it into Blood Plums.

Interesting to say the least.

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I’ve seen those 3 that I’ve mentioned grow great here in the PNW and my own Hollywood didn’t drown on me even with all this rain and it being in a pot.

Personally, i like cherry plums more than regular plums so I would lean more towards the smaller sized ones.

Shiro also grows very well here in the pnw. Even when it’s not quite tended to. Restoring Eden has one growing that’s always loaded every year with little to no care.

I know some plants are more sensitive to pnw constant rain but I know for sure Shiro and Hollywood are bulletproof from experience and watching others grow them around here. I’m still trialing Nadia myself and my first Methley died so i gotta get another one.

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What leaders? I believe Scott considers it mediocre.

I have seen the variety brought up many times and I doubt you will find a report from anyone that grows a wide range of J plums that considers Methely a top line J. plum in terms of texture and flavor. But if you did, that would be fine. I’m not trying to be an arbiter of flavor here, just trying to help use my experience to steer people to the most pleasurable results. Other opinions are always welcome, but I like to know where their comparisons are coming from. Everyone tends to love their own children. Maybe if they have 20 and they are all grown they are more objective.

To stop confusion, forum members usually call all plums with primarily Asian genetics, J’s. Some refer to some of them as interspecific hybrids which doesn’t really clarify matters unless you are into the breeding aspects. Most “J plums” will pollinate each other. .

Once you get far enough from the coast to get decent sun and heat, don’t most J. plums flourish in much of the PNW. Can’t you even grow most varieties of pluots?

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Umm…this one.

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Not sure what that has to do with the PNW topic.

Probably so… but it made the cut in the beginning.

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Out of all the Japanese plums… he listed Methley as one of them to grow.

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One mans trash may be another’s treasure. Alot of the heavy hitters of reviewing and discussing things comes from the North East… i dont think that should limit other folks from other parts of the US from their own observations and growing conditions.

PNW climate is the topic i believe.

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Ummm… really? That is not an endorsement (my family likes it) in terms of noting favorite plums. I already said the plum is good when tree ripe (in other words, I like it), what frequently planted J.plum isn’t? It is also often a reliable cropper that over bears fruit. Nothing wrong with it besides being black-knot Mary. I have never read her suggesting it was one of her favorite plums and I’ve read many of her annual reports on her plum crops. If you can find that, you will have something and I will give you credit for it.

Do you grow it? How does it compare with other plums you grow? That is what I’d like to see you spending time on instead of trying to shoot holes in my own opinions with inaccurate aim. Why are you doing that?

If it is one of your favorite plums, just say it. We are only providing opinions here, it isn’t a fact based subject.

Why do you believe I’m belittling anyone else’s opinion? I’m only asking what plums he’s using as comparison.

I work in an orchard in the coastal Redwoods of Northern CA- my sisters. She likes her Satsuma now that her climate is getting sunnier. I learned to love Elephant Heart and Santa Rosa plums as a young man in S. CA.

Of course what thrives in a drier, sunnier climate will differ from what performs well in the humid regions, but no one is trying to dismiss opinions of growers anywhere else. I’m only attempting to provide clarity. When someone says they like something it’s often meaningless unless you know compared to what, especially with fruit.

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Welcome to the fruit forum! I’m also from Skagit County, specifically Guemes Island, and am happy to hear from a fellow zone 8 fruit grower. (Our conditions here different enough from Seattle to make some of Seattle’s successes exercises in zone-pushing for us!)

As you can already see, there are strong opinions here and as @Alan states, “everyone loves their own children.”

I have or have had all of the suggested varieties you listed, some of them 40 years old, some newly planted, and some removed after a few years of not loving their taste.

I started with Methley, Beauty, and Shiro. All three grew well and pollinated each other but, when I added Imperial Epineuse, I realized what I really preferred are what’s known as dessert plums, i.e., those with a sweet meaty taste vs. those that are not as sweet but very juicy.

So out came Methley and Beauty and in went Hollywood, Imperial Epineuse, and Obilnaja. I kept Shiro because, even though it’s a juice bomb, its yellow color is brilliant. Hollywood’s showy blossoms and blood red meaty exterior and interior make it a show-stopper. Imperial Epineuse’s sweet meaty interior makes it perfect for drying. Obilnaja’s large purple fruit offer a great blend of juiciness and meatiness.

I tried many Pluots and you are right, they are not suited for our cooler than Seattle summers. However, I am taking a chance with Splash (interspecific) and Sweet Treat because of Seattle growers’ praises. But will see how the fruit performs in our 5-10 degree cooler summer temps.

One of the most unique features in Skagit Valley is the Western Washington Research Station in Mt. Vernon. Each spring it has a sale of hundreds of fruit tree scions plus classes on grafting and orchard growing. Each fall it has an orchard day where you can taste and pick apples and pears. Their 7-acre fruit tree planting gives you a great idea of what fruit, nut, and berry plants thrive here.

Plus there’s an excellent nursery for bare-root fruit trees, Christianson’s Nursery, that sells 8’ tall trees. I love both places. Maybe will see you there!

Btw, if and when you get into grafting, I have lots of scionwood to share.

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Hi Kyle,
Welcome to the forum! Since you are so close and in the same growing zone, I can recommend the following four plums based on your considerations. If there were no other varieties in the world these are hands down my top 4 picks from the various 35 varieties that I grow and still trialing! These should also cross pollinate well which is key to success here in our mild climate because the bees are not so busy when most of these are in bloom. Obilnaya is #1, Sweet Treat Pluery#2, Lavina, a New Zealand clear stone is #3, and Luisa another New Zealand clear stone is #4. If you can plant them all close together, say 8-10’ apart, and order a mason bees box with several bee varieties then I can guarantee these varieties will not disappoint you. Others I see mentioned above: Methley and Beauty would be about #9 or #10 in taste for us, but as cross pollinators they can’t be beat! I have not experienced any black knot which others complain about, so this region may not yet have that issue so much. I am adding new varieties each year so stay in touch and best wishes for the new year. Should you travel my way feel free to stop by.
Dennis
Kent, Wa

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I thought Lavina was from Lithuania?

Luisa… im very interested and waiting on it to become available again.

One of the members on here @mikeinspangle has an excellent report on Japanese plums (yes even Methley) from Spangle WA. Also on this link is his review of the 40 or so plums that he grows there.

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A Euoro, isn’t it? Very full flavored plum here, but not a reliable heavy cropper. Sometimes shy croppers produce superior fruit because they almost always have a favorable (to quality) leaf to fruit ratio.

If you have any wood you can swap, I might have a plum you’d like to try.

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Spangle (grew up on the N edge of the Palouse, actually know this town) is about as different a climate from coastal skagit county, as you could get in the same state. One is a frozen hard dry winter, one barely ever freezes over with drizzle probably 5 days a week.

The only place more different in the state would be above the tree line on Mt Raineer.

@krismoriah, before posting this, I see it could be perceived as not friendly. Promise I am just pointing out climate differences one outside of the state may not know. If you were aware, my apologies.

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Hi Alan
I will check, out skiing today
Dennis

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@alan
Oops you’re right Imperial Epineuse is a European. I have another dessert euro, Opal, which is its pollenizer. Both have excellent flavor.
I have Obilnaya wood, if you’d like some. Do you have Luisa?

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Because my sister lives in Westhaven CA north of Arcata and because I spent a year several miles from the coast in N. Mendocino county growing something, I know how much the weather changes from the coast just a short way inland. They might as well be 2 different countries as far as growing fruit is concerned. My son lives in Seattle, but every time I’m about to visit him he visits us, so I don’t know the weather there, but most everyone knows it is cool and moist during the growing season.

I’d never live where I can’t grow peaches! However in a couple decades that may be possible along the coast all the way to Canada. My sister never used to be able to get the sugar up in her Satsumas, but now they’ve become quite good.

Oh, and Chris can take it. I argue with him a lot. He still gives me hearts when he happens to like one of my comments.

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No worries. I myself am open to trying just about everything and all plums. Japan ranges from Z3 to Z13… and alot of these are from China, SE Asia etc… so hard to know exactly what their growing limitations are unless you try them. I know some people are sticklers to what the nursery says the growing zones are.

Lots of reports on these plums in the north east as well as a grower on here Joe Real that grows just about all of them…hes in California.

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I think the “zones” are just a very general guidance point. When I worked at the research station, Mt Vernon, we would always give out the same reply for newbies to Japanese Plums. Shiro, Methley and Beauty. It had been recommended for years for the Puget Sound area and generally speaking was always successful. There is, however quite a bit of variability in zones around the Puget Sound so one does have to use their head and go to forums like this for local REAL info on what works.
Ive been growing the above trio for 30 years on my farm, The plums are my first fruit into the farmers market each year. One week apart each starting with Beauty then Methley and I usually get two weeks out of Shiro. Shiro is a lot more forgiving but Beauty and Methley, if you expect to harvest them at a stage that will make the trip to market, takes a little more of a learning curve. The customers love them though. Always want to know why they cant get these in the grocery.

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Thank you very much for the input everyone! I appreciate the warm welcome to the forum!

Like cdamarjian pointed out, I can definitely tell there are some strong opinions on here (haha), but nevertheless I’m pleased to see the passion. I bought my first fruit tree (a Jonagold apple tree) about three years ago, which has since expanded to seven fruit trees; four apple trees, a Frost Peach, a Hosui Asian Pear, and a Maxie Eurasian Pear. As someone who is just getting started with fruit tree growing, it’s great for me to gain the insight/wisdom of those who have gone before me. So thank you so much everybody!

What got me interested in Japanese plums this summer was a kind neighbor who let me harvest some of their Shiro plums. Their mature tree produces more plums than they could possibly eat, so they told me to take as many as I wanted whenever my wife, son, and I passed by on our nightly walk. Shiro is a juice bomb, which my two year old son and I absolutely LOVE, so for that reason I’m more inclined to plant Japanese plums than European plums. My wife says I can only have three more fruit trees (since I’m taking up a good chunk of our yard), so I’ll either need to make these three count or bribe the wife haha

I’ll try to be wary of ordering fruit trees online. I can understand how this would be pretty hit and miss. Thank you Melon for the thorough list of nurseries you’ve enjoyed, as well as your poor experiences with RainTree. There are two nurseries in Skagit County that I love; Old Thompson’s Nursery and Christensen’s Nursery. I’ve had zero issues with either of them, so I’ll probably just stick with in-person orders from these two nurseries, unless there’s a variety i want that they don’t carry.

Based on the input above, it sounds like Methley, Shiro, and Beauty would be pretty safe bets for a reliable harvest in my region. With that in mind, some of the other varieties (Sweet Treat Pluerry, Nadia Cherry Plum, Obilnaya/Obilnaja, Luisa, Lavina, Hollywood ect.) mentioned above sound like they might be good upgrades. When I head to my local nurseries in early spring/late winter I’ll be on the lookout for some of these potential upgrades.