What’s the strategy? Are you talking about (1) removing astringency from cold-hardy Americans / hybrids, or (2) adding cold-hardiness to non-astringent Asians?
As I’ve said elsewhere, the most direct route would seem to be a cross of JT-02 with a male-flowering non-astringent Kaki such as Taishu or Hanagosho. But even if that cross is successful at producing a non-astringent hybrid, we’d be very lucky if it were cold hardy to Z5.
Apart from limited availability, what turned me off was the late ripening. My notes say that the Gora hybrids ripen in very late October or early November in Z7A Ukraine. That would seem to imply never ripening in Z5 New England.
Maureen,
You and I have the same goal. We want to find a non-astringent kaki that could grow and ripen in time for our zone. You have an advantage of growing them in your green house. What do you think temperature in your green hose is like compare to USDA zone? That will help people give you better recommendations.
Itis true that besides cold hardiness, ripening for the varieties we can grow is important. Late ripening varieties in warmer zone will be tough because it gets colder faster and the sun and heat goes away sooner in colder zones.
As for hybrids, I had Nikita’s Gift that kept dropping fruit. It “died” after 8 years. Turned out new shoots emerged on the trunk way above the grafting line later. By then, I was sick of it for dropping fruit and late ripening (mid Nov). I removed the tree.
I think @jrd51 talked about Saijo, not Saiyo. It has gotten good review for its tastel
We plan to breed hybrids with non astringent genetics on the kaki side. There are some other routes.
Yes, Saijo. Thx, I will correct the post.
Saijo is reportedly great tasting (and my 1 ripe fruit tends to confirm) but it is NOT cold hardy.
I don’t think the Gora’s would be hardy to 5 anyway since they are just a bit hardier than pure kaki trees. I’ve seen pictures from a grower in NJ that show fully colored GRK in mid-October, so I’d expect most 6B growers and probably some 6A would do okay. Of course more maritime or PNW areas with less heat in the summer could likely be an exception. We probably won’t know until more US growers report results as trees in the ground mature.
@Mikatani said that Roman Kosh develops good sweetness in his cool Belgium climate. It should be ok for New England. Goverla might not be suitable.
Hoverla is early and Roman Kosh is late. Hoverla has marmelade texture when soft ripe more on a dryish side if that’s what you like you can grow it. Roman Kosh is juicier but lacks in aroma. Any standard kaki will beat them in taste as well as the best hybrids: Kolhospnitsa, Nikitskaya Bordovaya, Dar Sofiyivky and Chuchupaka.
Thanks @Harbin. Do either of the Gora’s have any of the Virginiana taste or are they pretty much tasting like kaki?
Thank you for this detail. I lost my Saijo outside but maybe in this protected area it would survive.
Someone else advised me to multigraft so you’ve given me some ideas. Nikita’s Gift is doing fine in the outside area here so perhaps it would be a good tree to have in the ‘tunnel’ and graft to? I’ll try another Saijo in my tunnel.
Do you have an opinion on the best place to buy persimmon trees and scionwood?
Many Thanks!
Thank you I would be interested. Should I direct message you?
true. perhaps I should consider THOSE in my high tunnel. What are the approximate ripening dates for any / all Gora series hybrids? I see your comment above @Harbin about Hoverla (Goverla? probably a Cyrillic to English thing…)
My experience with my unheated solawrap tunnel is it pushes the season dramatically on either end. It also seems to offer protection beyond what pure temperature would indicate, so it takes more to form frost and plants are generally happier at low temps. In terms of pure “zone” advantage, though, its not huge. The temp tracks outside temps within a few degrees for the most part. When we had the sudden drop in temp last May it was -18F here and I measured -4F in the high tunnel about 1 ft off of the ground. That was a short cold snap though. Ive yet to see any frost beyond some superficial stuff near the sides though.
Hey @Harbin-
Ive got a stick of that on the way. I know its claim to fame is being parent to Dar Sofiyivki, but other info about it is scant. Could you tell us more about it- ripening time, fruit size/flavor, etc.?
It’s a mistake to equate coastal northern Europe with New England. For example, as this map shows, Belgium’s winter lows match USDA Zones 8-9. Most of southern New England is Z5-6; the southern coast is generally 7A. Moreover, the growing season in southern New England ends with hard frosts between mid October and mid November. Belgium’s low temps even in November are generally mid-30s F. Northern New England is even colder.
All I intended to say was that Belgium has fewer heat units than New England and Roman Kosh apparently does well there. By extension it should do atleast as well in your climate.
Hardiness doesn’t matter since all these new hybrids appear to handle Z6 with ease.
OK, but there are two considerations. One is cumulative heat. I take your point that the variety would get enough in southern New England. The other is length of the growing season. Let’s define that as interval between last spring frost and first autumn frost. The season appears to be much shorter in New England. I’m not expecting the variety to be killed. I just don’t think the fruit will mature. But I’d be happy to learn otherwise. . . .
Kolhospnitsa is a large size over 200 gram, very nice flat round clean fruit. As for taste I rank it highly with reasonable juiciness and good aroma. It is tastier than Dar Sofiyivky. Late ripening after Roman Kosh. In my climate I cannot test its hardiness but it should be on par with Nikitskaya Bordovaya - its mother.
@Harbin, could you please rank and rate the following persimmons for flavor? Your opinion is valuable.
This is my personal opinion, but in accordance with few other growers.
1.Nikita’s gift - mid
2.Dar Sofiyivki - very early
3.Chuchupaka - early
4.Sosnovskaya - early
5.Universal - very early
6.Roman Kosh - late
7.Rosseyanka - mid
8.Goverla - early, Pamyat Chernaeva - mid late
9.Bozhi Dar - mid
Others I don’t have or don’t know.