I’m looking to graft and plant apples on standards now - I am wondering what people suggest as the best standard apple rootstock in their experience, or pros/cons if any? I live in VA and my trees will be planted on a pretty strong sloping hill with not great soil.
I can find relatively good access to (but would love suggestions for sources of rootstocks):
P.18
Malus Dolgo (but only 1/8" caliber)
Malus Domestica
Antonovka
I also am wondering if there is much size difference in any of them? Thanks as always for any insights.
Antonavka seems to be the standard used in a lot of nurseries that sell standard sized apple trees on different rootstocks. I do not see hardly any others available.
St Lawrence Nursery sells mainly Antonovka rootstock trees as well as Fedco. I know you said you are going to graft your own trees but I was just mentioned those nurseries as a reference to you.
it seems to be poor nutrients and rocky, super dense with roots etc, near impossible to dig a hole in, and it probably stays dry due to grade. It was cleared one year ago and before that had some small trees, a few cedars, etc
I have used mostly M111 with very good results. I guess it depends on how high you want these apple trees. The Antonavka rootstock provides a deeper root system and will last longer than probably any other other rootstock. Not that the M111 is not a good roots I believe that they are just not as a good anchoring as a standard size tree, which makes sense because the tree is bigger all in all.
True, you could just bury the grafted area below the soil.
yeah im looking for monsters that can live long and withstand anything! I’m looking to accomplish something like this lady has (who lives on a mountain side) from this video of a lecture series with Michael Phillips:
I’m not sure if this helps, but my MIL and wife many years ago was given a root sucker that was supposed to be a Horse apple. It ended up being either a Yellow T or Lodi. Both are related to the Antonovka. Whatever it was, it was a vigorous beast. It was planted in in 1977 and when I cut it down in around 2015, the trunk was about 24" in diameter if not more. It was about 30-40 percent larger than the Black Twig and the two Summer Bananas that were planted at the same time, all on their own roots. This was near Dobson NC.
Great question Paul. Dolgo is often claimed to become slightly larger then most available root stock.
P.18 has a lot of pluses and huge healthy roots. But it was selected like all Polish root stock for sandy loam soils. But is equal to M111 for drought and nutrient uptake as a good generalist soil type. Fruiting seems scion dependent 3 to 4 years is common. Longer on others.
Do not forget B118 which has positive traits. Though it’s a leaner. And it does not like heat.
I’m sure the drainage will be just fine, as that’s what you get with a strong slope. You need a rootstock that will aggressively reach for nutrients and water, so something selected for sandy soils ought to fit the bill. Anything polite and well behaved will be lost in the brush that will grow up very fast. Be sure to grow as many annual N fixing plants as you can in the area, to build up reserves for the trees. Or do the rest of you know more on this subject?
I don’t know if you all will have fits, but Hector Black planted chestnuts with and without Autumn olive, and those with AO grew faster. AO is invasive if given the chance, but can be chopped to add organic matter as well. Mind you, I’ve never actually tried to KILL an AO. Hector did try, he had the AO’s chopped and the stups painted with Roundup AND covered in black plastic. I don’t know if he succeeded…
One thing I have allowed to spread around our garden and trees is Senna marilandica. The was a plant here, and it was pretty and died to the ground in winter. Where seeded into the garden I find it’s got big black roots that can be a pain to dig out. It’s a low N fixer, smells weird and goats won’t eat it. I’m just mentioning it in passing because I wonder if anyone else is familiar with it.
Sunn hemp would probably do better for near your trees, if deer don’t gobble it up. Our goats loved it when I cut the plants at the end of summer. Also, if you want some filler trees, just plant peach pits from trees suited to your chill hours. Saves a lot of digging, and they can crop in 3 years from the time you picked the peaches. They will be ready to chop down in 10 years or so.
The big goat and cow ranch around the corner seeds sun hemp and white beets for their herds. We have cut down our goat herd to a dull roar. Only 25. We supplement their diet with various tree and shrub cuttings. Mostly Vaccinium species. We have tons of wild ones here.
I have 125 trees on B.118, 125 on M.111 and 60 on P.18. M.111 has been the most precocious of them, the most vigorous and I’d say it’s my most preferred of those 3. B.118 has had a tendency in maybe 10-15% of those trees to lean (I’ve been staking the leaners upright for a couple years and they seem fine after that). P.18 seems most prone to fire blight, but I do like it. P.18 was noted as tolerating wet feet and I chose it for an area of the orchard that floods annually with spring melt off.
I’m glad to hear there’s another good thing to say about autumn olive because I have a ton of it and there’s no way to get rid of it!!! It is also good at stabilizing a hill.
When I want to remove a particular autumn olive (to make a new garden bed or clear some area etc) I have to wait till it’s growing, cut it down, and paint the cut stump with concentrated glyphosate. Anything less and it will resprout with vigor.
Standard is seedling rootostock, but it can vary a great deal because all seedlings have different levels of vigor. Almost every common rootstock these days is somewhat dwarfing. Why do you want full standard? Need a 50’ tree that takes about 8-10 years to bear fruit (speaking from lit only, the seedling rooted trees I manage are all very old).
I only graft on Antonovka because I want a 50ft tree that wont give fruit for 8-10 years. I grow the stocks from seed now, and select the most vigorous to graft to. I’ve culled my other rootstocks. I’m also pretty far north so it’s cold hardiness is solid.
There are seedling varieties that will not grow to full standard size. Orchards in Eastern Europe use Ulm Police and Bittenfelder to grow 70% class trees. No word on it; but I suspect slow fruiting. There are others more obscure.
These are mostly wildlife plantings so i want something that will live 100 years, be drought tolerant, weather/wind tolerant, and just rugged trees. A standard apple tree in full bloom is a sight to behold! Since Im going with M111 I will get fruit much sooner…hopefully. I’m also planting some grafted on Malus Domestica seedling for diversity. These are going on a hillside too steep to really want to climb for apples, I have another small orchard on flat ground for my family to actually harvest fruit from. That orchard has G11, Bud 9, and some M111.