I am getting to that age where my brain farts a lot too. I believe you meant horizontal here. “branches spread close to vertical”
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Interesting.
Is it a universal difference all environments?
Or could it be a difference due to new cultivation environments & changes in Earth’s weather.
Have they been grown side by side or top worked into the same tree for comparison?
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I would like to here people’s opinions on:
- Cox Orange Pippin
- Ellison’s Orange
- Tydemann’s Late Orange
- Kidd’s Orange Red
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Seeking options on:
1) Esopus Spitzenburg
2) Newtown Spitzenburg
3) Ribston Spitzenburg
4) Flushing Spitzenburg
Some things are so clear from anecdote that no one bothers a controlled experiment on them- but then, many fallacies are passed on under similar circumstance.
My anecdotal experience is rather extensive. I was once called to care for a small commercial cider orchard with a lot of N.Spy on M7 rootstock planted only 8’ apart- I probably should have cut down every other tree as the owner had been waiting for more than 15 years to get fruit, but the heavy pruning required to keep the trees apart was keeping them in a juvenile state. Using the methods described I brought the trees into reasonable productivity by the 2nd season. Probably about 100 N. Spy trees. That was 20 years ago, and I’ve used the general method on plums, pears and other slow to bear apple varieties before and since.
The French Axe method of training consists almost entirely of tying down branches below horizontal to a frame and is a common apple commercial production technique, so I’m guessing they have more specific evidence of how much this speeds productivity as it is employed on thousands of acres of commercial apple orchards, especially in Europe.
The concept has been in the literature for hundreds of years and used to be called festooning when used on European plums- it probably works for every species of fruit with a long “childhood”- I often use it with pears- most varieties behave like Peter Pan otherwise.
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I have sampled a few Cox’s and a few Kidd’s from my tree and they are both excellent and similarly distinctive. Prone to cracking in my environment. Karmijn de Sonnavile and Rubinette are both descendants of and share some of the characteristics.
https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/coxs-orange-pippin
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Kidd’s is sweeter, but Cox has more character. Kidd’s is easier to grow and more prolific in our orchard. Esopus earns the reputation it has had for a couple hundred years. I don’t think it fits well in our modern apple-eating culture, since it requires patience for it to reach its perfection.
No personal experience with any of the other named apples.
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Thanks
Thanks looking at “Offspring of this variety”.
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I’m in a warm dry climate, diseases not an issue.
Chill hours can be artificially triggered.
I prefer strong aromatic flavor.
The market here is an affluent retired community.
What about Ellison’s Orange?
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Suntan is another assertive COP descendent that’s worth a look.
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Don’t have it, but I’ve read that before.
Golden Harvey is worth your consideration, then, as well as the better-known Ashmead’s Kernel.
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Have heard of Ashmead’s Kernel.
Not familiar with Harvey.
Have not tasted either.
Will research, thanks.
Thanks, read information.
Sound awesome!
And probably good choices to hybridize with Airlie Red Flesh or Lucy Glo.
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Allow me to take a stab at your apple question, ZinHead. My experience may be more relevant, since my climate in Reno is closer to yours than I believe the climates of those who have chimed in already. That’s not to say Reno’s climate is similar to the Sonoran Desert; I get all the chill hours I need here and summer temps, while hot and dry, I assume are still far cooler than your area. Be that as it may, here are my two cents.
Avoid Ellison’s Orange. It doesn’t keep under the best of circumstances, and the harvest window is about two hours here. Bottom line, it hates heat, a trait it inherited from Cox’s Orange Pippin, which I’ve never bothered to grow due to that singular issue, although it has several others.
I’ve also grown Tydeman’s Late Orange, and eliminated it from my orchard. It produced sporadically and not heavily, and those apples were pretty good. Interestingly, I felt it tasted and looked similar to Esopus Spitzenberg, though Spitz tasted a bit better (generally excellent) and produces annually for me, usually large crops if I don’t get a severe late frost as I’ve had the past two years. These trees were neighbors in my orchard and on M111, so growing conditions were identical. I am unfamiliar with the other Spitzenberg apples you list, so I can’t comment.
Kid’s Orange Red has had issues for me. It hasn’t produced well, though I remain hopeful, and when it has, it is not nearly as good as Rubinette, another apple with Cox as a parent. Rubinette can tend toward mealy if I let it hang too late here (around mid October), so pulling it off the tree at the beginning of October is a better bet for me, even if it hasn’t colored up well at that point (tends to color up late here). When it’s great, it’s my best apple.
Your best source of information on varieties that could work in your climate is likely to be Kuffle Creek Nursery and Kevin Hauser, who posts on this site.
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I live a few hours north of you. About 4700 ft above sea level. I grow about 150 varieties but most are still too young to fruit. I know you asked about other varieties so I’ll make it quick. My cox offspring have been very hit and miss. They definitely dont seem to take the heat well as a couple have died. High and Dry already covered most of this but Rubinette does really well here. The tree and the fruit have been top notch. Suntan has been great as well with some serious sweets and sours. My karminj de sonnaville died and my Holstein as well. Actual Cox, Mendocino cox, and Kidds are growing but the warm temps definitely affected them. Best apples here so far have been King David, Rubinette, Hawaii, Mother, Spartan, and my personal favorite Orleans. Granny Smith and Gravenstein also deserve an honorable mention but too tart for my taste.
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Thanks, very detailed.
Well if can’t tolerate high desert, it will most likely fry in low desert.
I would think so. Which is disappointing because they are some of the most amazing apples out there. The flavor is second to none. My Ashmeads Kernal is also struggling. But I don’t think you can go wrong with Rubinette. We had 106 degrees up here for a few days last year and it still gave me some of the best apples I’ve ever had. Pink Lady and Sundowner are two you may look into as well. They shrug off the heat like it’s nothing.
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