Here are my Kiowa and Osage that I picked today. The Kiowa are much larger and to be honest I think they might taste a bit sweeter but they both have a similar taste. I like them straight off the bush but I prefer them after they have been in the fridge overnight a bit better.
I am planning on making a cobbler this weekend.
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Thanks for posting, in your opinion how is the flavor of Kiowa other than sweetness? I am growing Prime Ark Freedom, Prime Ark Traveler, Ouachita, Osage, and Sweetie Pie thornless blackberries. Of these Sweetie Pie is the sweetest, slightly sweeter than Osage, but I find Osage has a superior, more complex flavor.
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They both taste great to meā¦very similar but with the Kiowa twice the size you definitely get more bang for your buck.
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āBest Thornless Blackberryā threadā¦Kiowa may be good but it is not thornless. Just sayingā¦I have grown them before and the berries are the largest I have ever grown or seen. Flavor was typical of Eastern Blackberries.
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No it can take that. Last fall we had a quick deep freeze. I lost 2 fig trees, Many were damaged.1 mulberry. I did loss some bramble canes too. All looked well till this spring. It may have got caught not ready for the temps. bad luck. Funny because I pulled mine out and it keeps coming up, still is. I found a small piece of cane that rooted. Take a primocane at the end of the season. Cut it into 20 pieces. Bury the pieces, you will have 20 plants start to come up next spring. Iām going to try that, as I did find a number of rooted canes, not just root suckers.
Maybe you could send me a start of TC if you get any.
My sole plant - a biggun donated by BobVance - unexpectedly bit the dust after what seemed like a Banner Year of a growing season.
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I could, but it could be Navajo, or Natchez. They were all close together.
It is very strange it died? A number of plants keep popping up, so no problem sending.
Donāt worry about it. I would want to make sure I have the genuine article cuz of my OCD and all. Thanks anyway!
It would be hard to tell Navajo from Triple Crown. Natchez has such huge berries, it would be easy. Not only does Navajo looks just like triple crown except it does not grow so much, it tastes just like it too. I canāt tell them apart.
this hasnāt gotten much attention: another university of arkansas blackberry strain released earlier this year: the caddo blackberry. itās thornless, erect, and a floricane-fruiting variety.
it shares genetics with osage and prime ark 45, so the flavor is supposed to be excellent.
the name caddo comes from the insertion of avocado genes, giving it a distinct avocado-blackberry flavor. (i kid, i kid!) seriously, in keeping with many of the UA blackberry releases, this BB is named after a native american tribe/nation.
iāve been thinking of adding a couple osage plants to my garden, given its reputation for flavor, but i might give the caddo a try instead. the caddo berries are supposed to be substantially larger than osage berries.
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Isaac-1. What has been your experience with sweetie pie and Von since your last post? Iām just north of Houston 50 miles anf we get about 500 to 600 chill hours. I currently have Osage and Primark freedom Berries. Thx
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I have yet to add Von, maybe this spring, though I am also considering the new UA release Caddo, as to Sweetie Pie, I am overall happy with it. Sweetie Pie is my last blackberry to ripen as such SWD can be an issue depending on the timing of SWD emergence in a given year, berry size is similar to Osage, overall similar in texture, though perhaps slightly softer. Sweetie Pie is a very sweet berry, sweeter than Osage, though personally I prefer the more complex flavor of Osage. As to growth habits, Sweetie Pie seems to have many more, shorter more trailing vines than the U of A releases I am growing, so requires a bit more support, I am growing them on a cattle panel trellis which seams to work well, though maybe overkill on support.
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I noticed that Nourse, Indiana Berry, Pense Berry and Isonās are selling Caddo blackberry now. Sounds like an interesting variety.
https://indianaberry.com/products/1/7/Plants/Blackberries
I have Osage and thought it had a more complex flavor than Ouachita, Freedom or Traveler. Triple Crown, IMO has the best flavor of all my domesticated varieties. Osage seems to be the second least hardy of my BBās with Freedom the worst.
We had a few mornings here in the low teens last month, and about a half dozen of my PAF primocanes bit the dust, the leaves wilted and they failed the scratch test. Fortunately I have a bunch more canes still viable, but the fact that some have already bit the dust bothers me, and itās not officially winter yet.
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Just one commentā¦
Everyone here that has tasted my berries says Sweetie Pie has best flavor. To me, it also has an unexpected tanginess. On the other hand, I agree with the above poster who says you can"t go wrong between between the top 3 that he selected. As my old aunt used to say, the flavors are all good enough āthat a man running for his life, might not notice the differenceā.
Dunno if Marionberry will do o.k. here, but virtually everyone out West says itās a handsdown favorite.
If I remember correct the U of Ark made a deal with Gardens Alive (Gurneys) for them to have that cultivar. It is another U of Ark. cultivar. And those breeders think their best is Ponca. So Iām holding out till next year.I only need one cultivar. This one appears to me worth waiting for.
John R. Clark, fruit breeder and Distinguished Professor of horticulture for the Division of Agriculture and the University of Arkansasā Dale Bumpers College of Agricultural, Food and Life Sciences. when speaking of Ponca said
āThis is about as exciting as anything Iāve ever had my hands on,ā āItās our highest achievement for a sweet, enjoyable berry,ā
Ponca is the 20th blackberry release from the Arkansas program. It should be available 2021. I expect the usual suspects will carry it.
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Actually Sweetie Pie is from Mississippi. It has a reputation for being a very soft berry with a high sugar content
Iām pretty amazed how different berries taste from day to day or depending on where theyāre grown. I might also try Caddo, but this article on UArk berries suggests flavor might be in-line with their other recent releases:
Caddo, Osage, Ouachita, and Natchez all got around 8 on their flavor as judged by experts. I wish their experts would weigh in hereā¦
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Yes, nobody still has really beat Triple Crown. Although the new Ponca may be a game changer. Iām waiting for that one.
The ARS/Oregon program is nothing to write off. Using a different thornless gene have come up with a few commercial releases themselves. Still to me their best cultivar is Newberry. Itās thorny though.Columbia Star was just OK, Columbia Giant looks excellent for processing. And the double flower of Columbia Sunrise looks cool. All these are thornless. Newberry is amazing and nobody sells it anymore.It has a distinct raspberry aftertaste, very complex and rich flavor.
Here it helps to protect blackberries and itās easier for me to protect trailing types. I can though see how some would not want to deal with them. They are thornless and very flexible.
Newberry not as much and itās thorny. Very productive if you can keep the canes alive. So darn good too.
I just added Columbia Giant for processing, itās a touch sour, but the biggest thornless berry to date, Beats Natchez. Taste tests showed sweetened Giant beat Marion in flavor.
I need a berry just like this. I so enjoy my blackberry syrups. Commercial syrups are all trash as far as Iām concerned. I added Sunrise for the novelty of the double flower. I culled out Triple Crown, Navajo, and Chester becasue they ripened at the height of SWD plus to me the Arkansas cultivars with the thornless gene have a strange aftertaste if not fully ripe. I really donāt care for that flavor. The ARS/Oregon cultivars use a different thornless gene that does not add that grassy aftertaste. Currently I way prefer thorny types. I grow Newberry, tayberry, wyeberry, siskiyou, and marion.
Ponca, C. Giant and C. Sunrise are all early types or early enough to avoid SWD same with Tayberry, wyeberry, and newberry. I may cull siskiyou as itās not very hardy. Excellent flavor though! Marion is the only one that ripens during SWD season. I keep it as itās the king of blackberry flavor. Not very hardy I protect it in the winter from cold. Iām picky I donāt want to grow regular blackberries, I want the extreme gourmet types only.
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Drew, Bummed Columbia Star was just OK for you. Oregonās extension office lists Columbia Star as āoutstandingā flavor, better than nearly everything else they rate. https://catalog.extension.oregonstate.edu/sites/catalog/files/project/pdf/ec1617.pdf
Not sure if this is more influence of where they are grown, or just more hype for the locally bred varieties. Iām wondering if there would be enough interest in a topic along the lines of ābest trailing blackberry for cold climates.ā Assuming you had to overwinter your Columbia star in the garage?
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As you mentioned where it is grown, conditions etc. Maybe it just could not reach itās full potential here. Otherwise I liked the plant. Most flexible canes I ever saw, easy to move, place etc. If it were to grow back (they often do, hard to remove 3 years later i have those I removed still popping up from partial roots) I would try again.
I donāt think so Newberry is closely related and it is one of the very best i ever tasted.
It seems thorns and flavor are linked.
Surprisingly no, it did fine in ground. It was much hardier than any others. Why i added itās sisters Sunshine and Giant. I put them in ground. I tip rooted Newberry and put it in ground too now. Keeping the potted one for backup. Itās first winter it survived, but the cane looks dead, roots are intact, it will grow new canes. If these survive and I hope the do. It is so productive I suspect even more so in ground.
Not huge but just the bomb for flavor.
Tayberry is so unique it tastes more like strawberries than blackberries. Not tart!
Wyeberries which are very closely related to boysenberries (taste exactly the same) a touch more hardy, slightly bigger and ripens a week earlier. They have tartness, and are best as jam. I mixed tayberries and wyeberries and made jam and 2 people said I should market the jam, one insisted it was the best she ever had. I tried Knots Berry Farms boysenberry jam and was not impressed at all. These commercial sellers use so much sugar the taste is completely gone! I could not even eat it.
wyeberries
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