Best Thornless blackberry?

General Fruit Growing
#161

This is a really good discussion. In my area, it seems odd to grow blackberries when vast areas of the countryside are covered with wild Himalayan blackberries, including my own property, but those Himalalayans are too sour for me, unless very very ripe, almost falling off the brambles. Plus most are too high up on the massive brambles, and I wind up bleeding from the thorns. So I picked up some blackberry plants last year. Ebony King, quite old variety, somewhat thorny type is sold as “mostly thornless” and there are some thorns on mine, not a lot. Deer and rabbits ate the young growth. One plant now has a couple handfuls of developing berries, my first and much earlier than those Himalayans, and has a big primocane growing now. Prime Ark Freedom, deer and rabbits ate 2 plants to oblivion, 2 died immediately, one died completely last winter and one was half killed, leaving only one good plant. That floricane isnt blooming but there is a new sturdy robust primocane coming up now, 4 feet tall. Columbia Star lost most of its top during the winter but has some low blooms and a developing primicane. Last month I bought some Arapaho at Lowes, they are growing, so we’ll see next year.

Lessons learned for my neighborhood and climate:

  1. Protect from deer AND rabbits. Thorns have a purpose even though I dont like bleeding all over and I have a family member on blood thinning medicine. Now mine are all fenced.
  2. Prime Ark Freedom seems not winter hardy in my Maritime zone 8 climate - not as cold as some areas, but maybe mild mixed with cold and rain is what did them in.
  3. Tissue culture plants were more delicate for me (Prime Ark Freedom and Columbia Star) I liked actual bare root canes better. My Arapaho bought as bare root canes took off faster compared to the tissue cultured plants. However, maybe that is just the variety or my conditions.
  4. Might actually get some blackberries to taste this year. Next month?

From this topic discussion, maybe I should add some triple crown. It sounds vigorous, productive, and hardy. Do I understand that right? I dont need the biggest berry, just something sweet that tastes like fresh blackberries and grows here and preferably thornless.

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Black Strawberry
#162

Well as far as l know all known specimens are virus infected. As long as that is undstood I don’t mind sending out. It is not brown either but is a translucent white.
Very sweet too. Berries are small but prolific. I never heard it called snowbank? Only white blackberry. I also have Nettletons creamy white. I thought I destroyed it but it came back.

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#163

Maybe you can send yours to GRIN. it sounds more like the accession PI-618558 they no longer have then PI-618477 that they do have.

What do you think it might be infected with? I’m not growing any rubus in DC its worth a shot.

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?id=1013458

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?id=1508011

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#164

Out of all the thornless blackberry plants I purchased just one was alive to produce blackberries which was Darrow. The berry plant was extremely expensive when I planted it ( $20-$30 ) from a magazine add many many years ago. The add showed a older gentleman with glasses with these huge Bb fruit and plant growing and they were by his head. The berries in comparison to my families thorny berries tasted second rate. That was many years ago and the plants are still growing in the same spot and multiplied to 2-3 plants. The deer, raccoons , possums, birds etc. agree with me about flavor because we all eat the berries from the thorny type. All these years later after planting so many duds this is the first year I had the will to try freedom. Planted prime ark 45 thorny BB at the same time which were much cheaper than Darrow and both have put on more growth in a month than Darrow did in a year. BB are something that must vary a lot from location to location. I suspect those Darrow did good where they were from. A neighbor has plants they stake up and grow on a trellis and they were huge nice big berries but who wants berries that would need a trellis? These thornless all taste sour to me so far but I have not tried freedom yet. Anyone know much about traveler long term yet?

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#165

From the description of the advertisement and cost, I bet that you have Doyle’s instead of darrow.

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#166

Thats a possibility I may have the name mixed up.

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#167

Darrow is thorny and very hardy.

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#168

I did actually have the named mixed up. Doyle’s was the correct name. This advertisement shows the same gentleman with the blackberry plant in a similar add http://www.fruitsandberries.com

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#169

OK, wow unique! I’m going to stick with yours, this fall or before bud break, please if possible, I would love one the the heirloom blackberries. Dig me up a cane. Sounds perfect for here, and breeding too.

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#170

Hi Drew,

I am currently looking for White blackberry varieties. Could you please contact me via email deepbluefarm@gmail.com to discuss getting some white blackberry plants from you? I’m willing to discuss some payment for your help.

#171

Sorry I sold all my plants, I do not have any anymore. A grower in Florida was interested, and actually I traded for fig plants.

#172

Hi Drew,

You wouldn’t happen to know a source or could point me in the right direction? I’ve been researching this for weeks and it seems the only way to get the older white varieties is from hobbyists. Any help would be beyond appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Best,

Dustin Sparr

#173

Here’s a good source: https://www.rareseeds.com/blackberry-snowbank-white-blackberry-2-plants-ships-marchl-june-/

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#174

Thank you I had seen rare seeds is carrying snowbank for the 2018 season, I’m looking more so for nettletons white blackberry. Anyone know a source?

#175

Yes it is being sold as Polar Berry

#176

This week, Indiana Berry just re-opened for business. They are taking pre-orders for 2018 delivery.

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#177

I’m worried the Triple Crown I got from you is dead (I see no life on it). It grew great the past two years (it had sent out a cane at least 10 feet long). Maybe zero degrees was too cold for it. I am kinda shocked.

Surprisingly, PAF is growing well out of the ground after total winter die-back.

Same with your Newberry. It looks good!

Ouchita seems puny, but at least it’s alive.

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#178

@Kate

Your Osage cuttings were in a pot against my house all winter. They greened up and leafed out nicely in March and April. I got really excited they might have rooted, but alas I fear they are dead. The growth they produced has wilted. It was worth a try.

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#179

My TC died to the ground -22 was our lowest . They are sending up new canes . So no berries on them this year .

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#180

To bring this back to the original topic, now seems to be a good time to rate all 5 types of Thornless blackberries that I am currently growing, as I now have ripe samples berries available from all of the varieties for side by side comparison.

Strictly on a flavor basis, not counting berry size, yield, etc. I would rate them in this order:

1, Osage
2, Sweetie Pie
3, Ouachita
4, Prime Ark Freedom
5, Prime Ark Traveler

The Sweetie Pie berries in limited side by side test are sweeter than Osage, though Osage seems to have a more complex flavor, this is based upon only 2 or 3 Sweetie Pie berries, as this is a late blooming variety, with only a couple of early berries available now.

Ouachita’s are also good, with a similar ripening date to Osage, though I have to give the flavor edge to Osage, Ouachita is a bit sharper taste and not as sweet, but what I would call a more classic blackberry taste.

Which only leaves the PAF and PAT, PAF is a few days earlier than PAT, taste slightly better than PAT, though is not as firm, though in my case PAF has a MUCH higher plant failure rate than PAT, having planted 11 PAF’s over the last couple of years (6 with 100% failure, then 5 the next year) with only 2-3 surviving now, vs 10 PAT’s with 9 surviving, plus sending up more new shoots.

The first 3 on my list really are close to each other, and I could understand someone else putting them in any other order, depending on their personal selection criteria

Having written all this I see why John Clark of the University of Arkansas fame says if you are only going to plant 1 thornless blackberry, plant Osage.

Overall I am happy with my current growing selection, and just hope I get to sample more of the later ripening Sweetie Pies before SWD hits this year. Though I have also planted a single (free) Triple Crown this year, and may also try one more next year, perhaps Von from the University of NC program, as it has a reputation of having smaller seeds.

For first ripening dates here in western Louisiana I had my first ripe PAF around April 26, with the first PAT a couple of days later, followed by Ouachita, and Osage, and finally the very first of the Sweetie Pies yesterday on May 18, as the last of the PAF’s are starting to ripen here.

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