I usually chalk one whole year of top growth as a means to grow roots for year 2.
So just about anything that i plant this year I will lop off totally to a handle this Fall…then cut it to the ground in early spring. Primocanes hit the top wire in 2024 then in 2025 expect fruit. (unless its a primocane fruiting variety)
I think on the boysens and logans and most other trailing varieties the canes dont even get thick enough to bear fruit until year 3…if they do they are smaller.
Some rasps you can get a small crop on year 2 if they have a fantastic first year of growth… but not worth the waste of energy that needs to go to the new primocanes forming on year 2.
A ton of root growth will happen after they go dormant this fall… then primocanes will explode in March of next year.
@benthegirl … i had seen logans on youtube… people showing how to trellis, etc before i bought mine. I made a 6 ft tall x 8 ft wide trellis for them initally… and in year 1… the pcanes from my 2 new crowns of logan… Completely… covered that 6 x 8 ft trellis.
The second spring… while those fcanes were fruiting (and they did produce a good first year fcane crop)… but while and even before they fruited that first year… i had a mass of new pcanes coming up… and no where to put them.
I actually put in place… about 2 ft in front of the other trellis… a 8 ft long piece of cattle panel… and let the new 2nd year pcanes climb that trellis while my fcanes fruited.
Once my fcanes finished fruiting… i took them out and then transferred my new pcanes… over to the original trellis… but i expanded it… taller and 4 ft longer… the pcanes that grew that second year completely filled that space too.
Those second year fcanes produced so many berries… it was crazy.
I have learned how to manage locan canes at this point… what you eventually have to do is make a trellis large enough for the pcane growth that you are going to allow… x2.
So when your trellis if full of pcanes… and those over winter and become fcanes…
You have space available for your new pcanes to grow on… while your fcanes are fruiting.
In my pic above you can see this years pcanes running those top 4 tracks on the panel. That is their space… and they can run off the end and hang down too… and will.
But the bottom 4 runs on that panel are empty… that space is reserved for next years pcanes.
You have to do something like that to manage logan cane growth… at least in locations where they really grow well.
So my little tiny green bits are busy putting out roots instead up canes (I hope). Then, hopefully next year they’ll grow canes in spring/summer to produce floricane crops the following spring/summer?
They are primocane bearing raspberry varieties and I was planning on not having a floricane crop- mowing them each year to produce a primocane only crop. However, we’ll see what the bugs have to say about it. I’ve heard mixed reports in my area from “yes, that’s the easy maintenance way to do it” to “give up on your primocane crop because of bugs and just get a floricane crop”
I was going to add Vintage but changed my mind. The more i read about it the canes arent as strong and thick as most other rasps so they are recommending higher density planting.
I was also going to try Cascade Harvest as its now making its way slowly into nurseries…but i dont think it gives me anything that Cascade Delight doesnt offer. Maybe if i had a commercial harvester and had many acres it would make sense but doesnt make much sense to a backyard grower.
Nova even though its an older culivar seems to be pretty obscure and not many people growing it. The word that keeps coming up over and over is its tartness which some folks like…(me). And is good for fresh eating and jams. Also i keep noticing that its very cold hardy and also very heat tolerant… which with weather the way its been lately…is a very handy plant to keep around.
Not sure if i posted this…but again almost nobody talks about Nova.
if you havent seen this already, from ME extension on floricane reds
Nova at the 2:43 mark “mid-season variety - nice, firm, glossy berry with good color;” “what I really like about this variety is it has good disease resistance” (against anthracnose, spur blight and cane blight)
I have prelude and encore and both seem very good (and getting a nice primocane prelude crop now)
Looking at these studies again, I’m seeing that all of the ones examining chilling requirements are testing floricane varieties, or floricane production of primocane types. ¿Are there any studies on chilling requirement for primocane production (to the exclusion of the floricane variable)?
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I’m getting a lot of doubled berries on my potted PAF. 11 out of 12 berries are doubled. Any particular reason for that?
Per Cornell, double berries are usually from heat stress (and are thus more often seen in high tunnels)
I think chilling requirements are complicated; in the 2 papers you cited, Autumn Bliss did worse with any cold while Heritage did much better and Tulameen had some minor benefit as did Meeker (a trend that did not show statistical significance) UC103, their new cultivar, did not show any difference (Gambardella)
in the Dale paper (2005), Autumn Britten had both many more floricanes and many more primocanes when it had cold storage prior to going into a greenhouse; however, Polana did not have any more primocanes when it had cold storage prior to going into a greenhouse. He also had something weird happen where the floricane crop for Heritage never happened even when cold stored
Dale in that paper also said he could get fruit without any chilling by increasing length of day, so it is not only temperature (chilling requirement and warm temp to break dormancy) that drives this
so it is not simply chill requirements but also length of day
I think it is complicated
The Scots from JHI think there is a genetic drive behind this - to describe the differences for chilling requirements between cultivars and made a model
There are more chilling requirement papers on Heritage as a primocane since it was planted so much and has been around so long
ACC Eden has survived and fruited well the last 4 yrs. here but my patch got root rot from all the rain we’ve had this summer. i hope some survive so i can transplant to a raised bed to save them. if i can, remind me and ill gift you a few next fall. big tasty berries that start ripening mid july here in z4a. large sparsely thorned canes that almost dont need a trellis. very productive. never froze or damaged above the snow line during our -40 2 winters ago so at least z3b hardy.
My second leaf Anne plant got big! It’s kind of hard to see, but it’s got a half inch thick, six foot cane with several three foot side shoots and arching to the right. There’s a bunch of Double Gold plants in front (to its East). I’ll properly train them next year to lessen the chance of being mauled while picking, though the thorns aren’t particularly bad.
Actually… spineless would be the best term… most folks call them thornless. They dont need a trellis after year 2 at all. One of the few rasps that give uniform berries. One of the few rasps that i would feel comfortable planting in between trees in an orchard due to not needing a trellis…and they are extremely tough as far as not needing much care. Excellent choice for a food forest due to their ‘spineless’ canes and no need for human care other than pruning out dead canes for aesthetics.
Not very popular here in the US…because folks love Joan J and Canby and other spineless ones…but i think its superior for its other attributes. Also not as popular due to ripening mid summer with SWD… but handy to have for extreme cold and drought condtions in the summer. Its a tough plant.
All our raspberries patches are raised beds and we have plasticulture between the rows.
I have tried hydrogen peroxide in a sprayer (1%) in the past when heavy rain came and even the raised beds were super wet; when they finally dried out, I sprayed peroxide and it seemed to help for root rot (but totally anecdotal)
The weather looks like 6-7 dry days in a row and I will spray some peroxide at some point
Eden per Nourse is not cold hardy so I am impressed the only thing stopping it in z4 for you is not winter but wet weather
So with so many variances and really seems like everyone just posts their gut feeling or whatever the first thing they read on a google search instead of real data…i dont think they really even know or care.
My ‘gut’ says its a very tough plant that prefers drought to flooding…and the cold doesnt bother it so much. Steve’s ability to grow it says that it is indeed cold hardy.
For root rot i have just been mixing half river sand to potting mix when i plant new plants. So far everything is doing fantastic. A few years ago i just mixed my dirt with potting soil and had all kinds of issues with root rot and various things. I have since pulled all of those plants.
I have no science to back me up but in my location and with as many varieties as i grow of rasps and blackberries and hybrids… im going to say with my gut that they all really thrive and flourish with added sand.
An obcure video from someone that grows Eden in Canada.
over half the canes were above the snow line 2 years ago when we had 3 days of -40 so whoever said its not hardy didnt know what they were talking about. Nourse never stated cold hardiness. i figured if its bred in N.S it should be hardy in Maine. i also grow z5-6 trailing blackberries by leaving the primocanes on the ground in a bunch then covering them in old synthetic fleece blankets. then the snow buries them. no cane losses. in spring i tie them to the trellis.
Prime Ark Horizon.
Taste is fantastic… very very sweet and a tad bit of tart. Way better than my Ponca or Caddo.
I havent seen any reports of anyone growing these because they have thorns…which arent bad at all.
Ripe here now… so this will probably not be popular going forward. No clue what the floricane crop will be like. Primocane crop is just a bonus for me.
Likely this one will not be sold long on the market… due to lack of interest. Nobody wants thorns. Im keeping it.
Anyone try growing wild native blackberries? Read they’re native to much of canada, possibly some of the northern U.S.
Not native where we live but came across a tree seller offering canes. Supposed to be zone 2 hardy and good size berries. Think I’ll put some in next spring, give them a try.
i had a Canadian/ smooth blackberry i transplanted from the wild in my yard. the fruit were tasty but small. i then bought Nelsons from Fedco. they are equally hardy surviving -40+ 2 winters ago with minimal damage. id offer to send you some but its a big pain to send across the border. seen several z3 hardy ones sold by several Canadian nurseries. think they were called ebony hardy and balasor black.
Wild/native blackberries are basically invasive around here, they’re everywhere. Are they “Himalayan” or something else? Don’t know… Not very large berries and just so-so taste… I plant and care for and prefer various named varieties. Thorny or thornless doesn’t matter a whole lot, as long as they’re great tasting. For me at least the wild ones don’t make the cut…
It’s kind of hard to see, but it’s got a half inch thick, six foot cane with several three foot side shoots and arching to the right. There’s a bunch of Double Gold plants in front (to its East). I’ll properly train them next year to lessen the chance of being mauled while picking, though the thorns aren’t particularly bad.
