I had read multiple accounts of shorter interstem pieces resulting in less dwarfing, and ~8" being about right. So I used about a 1’ interstem piece and the bottom union is buried ~3 to 4". I’m hopeful that will make for a winning combination.
Yeah, I imagine that has to play a part. I’ve compared root growth after 1 season in a pot and it’s night and day M111 versus BUD9. After cutting off the top for an interstem piece I stuck a few of the roots into pots. To grow more interstem pieces for the next year… A few this spring I grasped the stem and picked pot and all up and shook it slightly. It came loose from the soil and didn’t look like a lot more roots than what they had when planted last spring. So I can see why they’re not free-standing on their own…
Not convinced Bud 10 is good for heavy clay soils of Shenandoah Valley (which used to be the center of Apple growth) or that it is resistant to Collar/Crown rot, which the G’s tend to be. G-890’s for me, G-41 preferable also. P-202 also works, but if you ignore collar rot you end up crying. Easily as destructive as fireblight in rainy years and the treatment for it, RidomilGoldSL is very expensive. I routinely soak all trees as per the label in Aliette before planting.
It looks like Bud 10 will be equivalent in size to the larger M9 clones where Bud 9 is smaller than the smaller M9 clones. I don’t expect it to reach M26 size unless you use a a very vigorous scion like Bramley.
Size chart for Bud 10
Bud 10 compared to other rootstocks (chart)
I’m in luck then, since I’ve got Harrison on top. Orange Pippin lists bud 9 on bud 118 as producing something in the neighborhood of M26. However, this and all other descriptions are pretty arm-wavy. Not too surpising, as there are a number of factors at play. That’s good enough for me, though, as I’m just looking at orders of magnitude rather than precise sizing.
Thanks for the links. Says the B-10 root mass is greater than other … in fact even the G890 it says stakes required. I hope not! But I have more B118’s and B-9’s anyhoo.
G890 when mature should be free standing if trained to the central leader system. It would be prudent to temporarily stake it until it has set a couple of large crops. Since the Geneva’s are precocious they can go thru a period where the crop load is too high for the tree to support it. There are reports on the forum that G30 goes thru a wobbly period and I think this might happen with G890 as well.
These problems can happen with M7 and M26 too although this seems to be often overlooked. I see recommendations where they should be staked for a number of years as well. The problem seems to be influenced by soil type and the cultivar grafted.
Yes, I have a 32 nd leaf Fuji and Granny smith on M7…have leaned at about 75 degrees for years!
My biggest G30 is 6 feet tall and has zero side branching. Free standing so far, but that might change if it had half dozen big apples!
M7 takes longer to bear, I never did mind it leaning a bit. In a home orchard, only the anal retentive should care if it’s not completely straight.
B10 I have one plant that is big enough to plant out after couple summers in a pot. I lost some of my first 10 to root rot I think. In containers.
(Hey, it’s rained a lot here for 5 years and even containers can get too saturated.)
@BlueBerry I have a tree like that. It grew vertically and only had two small side branches high up on the leader. I ended up cutting off 18 inches of the leader and I reduced the side branches to stubs during the Spring pruning. The tree then branched heavily all along the leader.
You might try something similar. Or try notching- Skillcult has some good videos on how to do that.
I like the idea of freestanding trees without the use of interstems. I have geneva 890 and 969 stocks in my orchard but don’t want all my eggs in that basket. I’ve got one tree on m7 but afraid it will lean in mysandy soil . For that reason I’m still looking for Bud 490 stocks if I can find them.
I ordered 25 Bud 10 yesterday, and 100 B-118. Last year got 100 Bud-9 and a few G890 and G202. I also would experiment on a few B-490 if I could find some.
If I don’t get 'em all grafted, I’ll plant them real close or several to a pot and graft next year or do a bit of budding. (Got poor growth out of the B-9’s this past year, but in previous years they have done ok.)
(I think I put too much real soil in the pots and not enough sand and bark, considering how rainy the season…lost some, apparently to too much moisture…around 10% of the '21 grafts after over 90% had taken and grown.)
BlueBerry - how are your Bud10 samples coming along? Any observations worth sharing?
Still too early in the process to give really specific results.
But, I did harvest a May Queen apple in late August of 2023 from a graft I did in March 2022 to a B-10 rootstock. In a 3 gallon black pot.
And I have some other grafts in that group I grafted in 2022 that should have a cluster of blooms or three this year. Much more vigor than the B-9 root, that is the parent of B-10.
I have 100 more B-10 rootstocks coming early March.
I got some b.490 scionwood a few years ago with plans to grow it out on a different stock, cover it will soil up past the graft union, then cut off the b.490 portion to continue propagating by stooling. The trees have held on but not grown much. They are not in a great location, may transplant this year. When I eventually get results, I will offer to send some out for people to try.
You have some Budagovsky 490?
I’ve not seen it for sale in US.
Anyhooo…if you get the scion to take, you could probably lay the tree over and cover it lightly and get some rooted shoots eventually from your scions. (Or stool mounding if you pile the dirt high enough, and snip the leader forcing side shoots that are then heeled in by dirt or mulch…until they form roots. )
Keep us posted.
I requested some to test for susceptability to Armillaria, which I also plan to do at some point once I have stocks to actually use.
Nice to hear about the vigor. Sounds like wait-and-see, but you’re feeling good enough to dip more than just your toe in. Looking forward to the posts on this over the coming years. It sure sounds promising as dwarf rootstock for our Colorado conditions (cold hardy, good root mass, FB resistant).
I read in good fruit’s rootstock guide that B.9 doesn’t do well in sandy soil, and I’m 60% sand. Have you run across any information that indicates any soil preferences or issues for B.10?
I’ll only comment to say all of mine are in pots at the moment. Un-staked.
And various potting mixtures have been used.
I even used clay topsoil amended by horse manure in a handfull of pots…and B-10 lived and G-890 died as did B-118.
I do have a lot of runted B-9 trees…but it could be the pot culture more than anything stunting them? Or high sand as you suggest I suppose?
If it turns out I can crop it and not stake or trellis it…then I’ll be especially happy. . I think. I am not sure if I could plant them 30" or 60" or the appropriate distance once I get them out of their pots.