Anyone have any experience with Bud 10? I was glancing at the rootstocks page of ACN and came across this description of Bud 10:
BUD 10
A dwarfing and cold-hardy rootstock, Bud 10 is our most recent offering from the Budagovsky series. Exhibits good fire blight resistance with vigor similar to a strong M-9 clone, like Nic29. The rootstock induces wide scaffold branching, and NC-140 plantings indicate excellent yield efficiency. Tree support recommended.
The “induces wide scaffold branching” part sounds appealing. Could make a good interstem like Bud 9. My cursory search indicates that it’s only really available in commercial quantities at the moment, and that it was introduced relatively recently.
I grafted 10 of them last year. 9 took. I have one I’m thinking about ‘stooling’.
The jury is out. So far, I like it ok…as I do B-118 and B-9. (Enough that 100 B-9 and 20 B-118 and 5 G-890 are all I ordered this year.) *If B-10 proves to be self-supporting and most not requiring stakes…then expect me to migrate that direction in the future.
self supporting tree around m9 size would be awesome. Somehow i have my doubts though. To me it seems size plays a role. Since if not seen any self supporting rootstocks smaller than around M26 size. From anything in the Rosaceae family.
If it turns out it is self supporting. Id assume it to also be more M26 size than M9 size.
Wide also sounds good to me. It is difficult in my simple mind to see how this could happen just from a rootstock. I put a lot of effort into getting wide angles and this trait would be helpful.
Yeah, it’s kinda crazy all the impacts a rootstock can have. I do wonder about how much variation there is in the flavors of a given fruit variety depending on rootstock.
@BlueBerry freestanding would be awesome, but I’d be surprised as @oscar said. I suppose it’s possible, though. Treco says it produces a tree similar to Pajam-2 in NY. Cross-referencing their listing for Pajam-2, it sounds like about the size of M9 but with better rooting. I’m not sure that translates to freestanding, but it’s interesting.
Gosh, there’s all kinds of neat stuff here. Check out P-22. More dwarfing than M9 (25% of standard), but with better anchoring, disease resistance, and no burr knots. I understand this is marketing copy, but it’s certainly intriguing. If I had more than .29 acres (half of which is shade) I’d be keen to try some things out.
Or MARK (which I’d heard of, but hadn’t really looked into):
“MARK is one of the first in the dwarfing apple rootstocks which is strongly anchored and with proper orchard procedures may be free standing, however it is our recommendation to support this tree.”
@oscar It sounds like decent anchoring and ultra-dwarfing are a possible combination. Maybe not fully there yet, but possible. I’d wondered about this a bit, since if roots were the only thing inducing dwarfing, interstems shouldn’t work. Clearly, there’s more than one mechanism at play.
Bud 10 isn’t going to be freestanding unfortunately. None of the dwarf rootstocks really are freestanding. Some of them claimed to be when released but it never really pans out. Bud 10 is going to be really useful to people that want Bud 9 with a bit more vigor.
As I remember the Mark rootstock had problems with root girdling and/or strange growths at the crown and it fell out of favor and is no longer commonly used.
Like mroot mentioned, there where a few flaws with MARK. I remember reading about it in some older texts, and wondering why it wasen’t the standard today. Turned out the older texts exageratted the positives and some nasty negatives cropped up in some older tree’s. RMP
see Apple Rootstock Info: Mark – Apples
Free standing ofc is a relative thing. If i plant M27 in a wind sheltered back yard. And heavily thin the crop and prune it bonsai style. It can do without support and technicaly be freestanding.
But freestanding in the sense like MM111 is after a few years. I’f not seen/read about a rootstock significantly smaller than M26 achieve that.
As far as i understood, they’r not 100% sure what mechanisem is behind interstem dwarfing. But i think the theory now is, that the interstems brake down cytokines (and or auxines) and other plant hormones, or at least form a bottleneck for them.
And an interstem tree will thus have less rootmass than an non interstemed pure rootstock. Id gable if you where to find an interstem that dwarfed MM111 to m9 or m27 level it would no longer be freestanding.
I read somewhere that really vigerous apples on M9 like bramly became decently freestanding when older. But they also reached a M26 tree size at that point. And i also read that varieties lacking in vigour on M26 where not free standing. I can’t find back the source though. So take this as hear say. And aslo since free standing is a relative thing vs the enviroment it could also just have been different enviroments.
Does anyone here have experiance whith different vigor varieties being freestanding or not? (ie have freestanding rootstock on which the vigerous varieties did not fall/blow over. But the low varieties did?)
I hope that’s not the case. I have a good number of BUD9+M111 and G41+M111 interstem trees. Hoping to limit the overall tree height, but maintain freestanding. Guess I’ll find out as they mature…
i have a bunch of MM111 with B9/M9 interstem tree’s to.
The NC-140 trials showed them to end up roughly m26 tree size and as freestanding. (after a hurriciane or somthing both M26 and the interstems “leaned” the same amount.
my interstems are quite young. So it’s all conjecture and from things i head/ read.
As far as i could find a MM111+B9 interstem would basicaly end up as a M26 but with better soil, moisture, dryness, disease resistance from the MM111 roots.
skillcult should have some older interstem tree’s so he should be able to speak from experiance. I dunno if he has M26 to compare against though.
Yes it’s tall spindle. All current trials are on tall spindle, vertical axe or slender spindle. No one trials trees on central leader systems any more since central leader is not profitable now. Pay back period for central leader (Christmas tree shape) is 15-20 years …if ever. Tall spindle is 7-8 years if done right which isn’t easy.
All of my apple trees are staked. Initially, I wanted free standing trees with either B9/M111 or G11/M111 but I had trouble finding trees at the time. Plus really interstems are still difficult to find even if you know where to look.
I didn’t like the aesthetics of stakes and though “real trees” should be free standing. But I finally decided to go with dwarfs and support them. So I understand that a staked tree is not desirable to some. But I think many home orchardists should at least consider them. Plus dwarfs can be trained to the central leader but they still need to be staked.
If they grow slightly larger than what BUD9 would have likely produced on it’s own, I’m OK with that. As long as all those traits you spelled out are there, and they’re free standing. Am on year 2 with my first batch, will be interesting to see where this journey leads.
From what i could gather, they become quite a bit larger than B9. Roughly M26 size. Although that also depends on your soil/climate/enviroment and varietie vigor.
Did you plant the MM111/B9 graft union below soil level or above? Im undicded. If planted it exactly at soil level so i can mound it up if i change my mind.
Im afraid ill loose some disease resistance from planting the union and B9 root. (phytophthora, whooly aphid etc)
But not planting the union, might make the MM111 roots sucker.
I also remember reading somewhere freestanding also had a lot to do with delayed cropping and pruning/tree form. If you crop a M26 or similair sized tree (interstems) to fast/ It might not have formed thick enough scaffolds or strong enough rootsystem to support the crop weight + a storm.
I’m doing a Bud 118/Bud 9 interstem and I also expect ~M26 size from the combo. I’m actually retrofitting the trees I grafted last year by cutting the tops off and regrafting with an interstem. I almost bought M26, then decided I wanted better roots. Then of course I got overly concerned with whether I’d be able to keep up with vigor control via summer pruning, so here we are… My unions are above ground since it was a regraft, but I’m considering sinking the trees since they’re still young and small.