I’m going BONKERS (more than usual). All the DIY trellis plans I’ve seen thus far include NO measurements or equipment recommendations besides “wire. Posts. Screws.” etc. GIVE ME SIZES! GIVE ME DIMENSIONS!
Currently I’m going off of this video, as I’m thinking I’ll have a two-wire draped kniffen-esque system unless I upgrade down the line to a GDC or Munsen.
The problem is, again, I get no dimensions for the hardware. The wire, posts, and I think wire clamps are easy enough, but now I’m determining what hardware he could’ve used.
I can give you dimensions, though I haven’t built mine yet:
posts 4x6’s, 7 feet.
Why 4x6’s? I’m unsure if I need to use 6x6 but I figured the stress left to right won’t be as high as a long the row.
Why 7 feet? I want to later put some vines on the roof like a pergola. You could get away with 5 or 6.
beams 2x8’s, 2 10 foot long pieces.
Why 2x8s? They’re probably rigid enough to resist the stress between the posts. They won’t be weight bearing until I maybe put on that roof I mentioned.
My posts are set about 8.5 feet apart, so 10 footers should do
cross beams/ rafters 2x8s, 3 10 foot long pieces
Same reasons as before for 2x8s. My trellis rows are about 9 feet apart. My whole setup is 18x9
braces: unsure, I’ll probably use off cuts and 2x4s. I should be able to get 3 foot braces out of the pieces which should suffice
I’ll upload my material list and prices if you’d like. I just have to fight the formatting to get it pretty.
@clarkinks and @KS_razerback were my inspiration for growing grapes as they seem to have it figured out for the sake of simplicity.
I think Clark grows his on hog panels which is what i use for perimeter fencing on my main orchard and i wanted to make it double duty as a fence and to grow grapes on it… hobby at best for me but YMMV.
@TNHunter I love your simple set up- it’s what I’m converting the first attempt to. Did you set your posts in concrete or they’re just stable 3’ in? Mine were not stable and didn’t want to back brace. @MamaHawk we first tried to emulate that video. It didn’t work well. Please update if yours does.
That trellis system in my opinion is highly substandard. The wires aren’t tight and will sag a lot under load. The posts wiggle around like Jello. They should have been set in concrete or much deeper. The turn buckles have very limited adjustment range. That bracing system on the end does very little to tighten up the wire or strengthen the system.
The tightener shown in post 4 gives much more adjustment.
A ground anchor end brace 6-8 feet outside of the last post would be better. Or put in two posts tied together on each end to form an H. I don’t have a picture of the two post H system. But that’s how we built fencing on the farm in my youth. You put in two posts like his on each end. At mid height there is a brace horizontal to the ground. The brace could be something like a steel fence post or 4x4 wood post. Now heavy-duty wire is stretched very tightly from the bottom of the first post to the top of the second post. I could try to describe how to tighten that wire for anyone interested. It’s very simple.
So, in essence the top of the second post is anchored to the bottom of the first post much like having a ground anchor 8 feet outside of the first post.
That’s somewhat similar. But think of a wire from the top of the second post to the bottom of the first post. Take some wire and circle both posts. On wood posts the wire is held in place with staples pounded into the posts. Now take a 2 foot piece of rebar or similar and stick between the two wires. Start twisting that to shorten the wires pulling the top of the second post towards the bottom of the first. Now the real anchor point to tighten the trellis wire is the second post. But in the farm fencing setup, the fencing is started at the first post. The first and second post become an H shaped unit. The second post is anchored to the first and the horizontal brace holds the first post in place.
This ^^ is the standard H-brace that I see at the corners of agricultural fences all over the southeast, and sometimes in the middle of a long stretch of fencing.
The “twitch stick” for the wire tightening of this brace just works. So simple and yet so effective.
Operating at a slightly lower level of performance is the so called “kiwi brace” which employs the same principle, just not quite as much tensioning ability as the H-brace.
Thank you for the picture of the H two post end brace. The horizontal brace between posts is higher than I remembered. But it’s been 60+ years since I helped build farm fencing. We built long fences that way and the bracing never failed.
Agreed. It seems to me that the horizontal brace is generally located two-thirds of the way from the ground to the top of the post.
On the subject of the top of the post, you will get longer life from your posts if you provide some method of keeping water from sitting on the top surface of the wood, whether it be cutting the post on a slope in order to shed water or covering the top with a nailed-down square of aluminum flashing to deflect water. Even with ground-contact, pressure-treated wood, the lifespan is foreshortened from water sitting on the top of the post.
@Eme … yes set the post in concrete… 80 lb bag for each hole.
In 2002… i used the same type posts (4×6 TP) set in concrete… for my trellis for my illini blackberry row and my concord grapes. 20+ years later they are still solid.
As I remember we positioned the horizontal brace about where you suggest. It was such that we could twist the wire both above and below the brace. That helped to hold the brace in place. And if you select the right length of rebar, when you are done twisting you tuck the end of the twist bar behind the brace so it won’t unwind.
I have tightened trellis wires by twisting them. Run two wires instead of one. To tighten put a stick between the wires and twist.
Not my pics but this was my original plan to do for a portion of my perimeter fence… im not sure what the wood does… as the cattle panels attached to the Tpost would take an enormous amount of weight to get them to budge.
I would rather put trailing blackberries on it than grapes…but thats me…
@zone7a Thanks for the dimensions! Do you have a sketch of your ultimate goal?
@Audi_o_phile Fascinating option, I’ll look into it!
@krismoriah agreed on the simplicity factor; I’m just looking for something that will hold up table grapes without falling on people over time.
@TNHunter I don’t want to use concrete since we’re in SUCH a suburb (I doubt that the next house owner would love it) but I do want to bury the posts deeper than usual to counter that. Otherwise I really like your trellis design and hope to copy it.
@Eme Good to know that your attempt following the video wasn’t successful, I’m adjusting plans as I read this thread!
@fruitnut Good to know - again with the concrete as I mentioned above, so I’ll aim for much deeper - how deeply do you recommend? I’m also hoping to pursue to the kiwi brace that @Audi_o_phile shared because the less walk-room taken up in the front yard, the better.
Also for @Audi_o_phile, the flashing on top of the post is a really good idea. Do you just nail it down like a plate, or create angles at all?
@TNHunter How big was the turnbuckle? I’m seeing different sizes offered at Lowes…
How deep depends on your soil and how good the end bracing is. If the ends are solid, then the dangers of the posts tipping over is less. Without concrete I’d say you need a third of the post in the ground.
