I got Sauvignac scion from Bob Purvis 2 years ago . I also got Hudar . Both are on the same callery tree . Hudar has grown more . Hudar may bloom this year or next . Sauvignac will take longer . No spurs yet .
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Anyone reading this from Canada may be interested to know pears such as Phileson are now available as trees again Collection Pears - Hardy Fruit Tree Nursery. I would love to get my hands on the the original descriptions that were published in: Spangelo, L. P. S., W. R. Phillips, and D. S. Blair. Pears. Progress Report, 1949-1953. Central Experiment Farm, Ottawa. P. 32. See the Nafex email below between Richard Bell and Claude Jolicoeur from 18 years ago.
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RE: [nafex] Pear leaf spot
To: "'nafex@egroups.com'" <nafex@egroups.com>
Subject: RE: [nafex] Pear leaf spot
From: "Bell, Richard" <rbell@afrs.ars.usda.gov>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:28:26 -0400
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Enie, Menie, Minie, and Moe were released by Agriculture Canada’s
Central Experiment Farm in Ottawa in 1947-1949. The original
descriptions were published in:
Spangelo, L. P. S., W. R. Phillips, and D. S. Blair. Pears. Progress
Report, 1949-1953. Central Experiment Farm, Ottawa. P. 32
Brief descriptions also appear in:
Howlett, F. S. 1957. Preliminary evaluation of new and uncommon pear
varieties. Research Bulletin 790. Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station,
Wooster, Ohio. (This is also listed as North Central Regional Bulletin
75).
Howlett’s descriptions:
Menie bears moderately small (2 1/4" diameter), round to
obovate-pyriform, greenish-yellow fruit. Howlett rates the flavor as
poor, keeping quality as poor (softens quickly), unattractive, and of
no commercial value.
Minie is moderate in size (2 1/2" diameter), globular, obtuse, with no
neck, greenish-yellow, with some red blush, tender, sweet, and juicy
flesh, fair flavor with some hint of astringency, with poor keeping
quality, softening “almost immediately” after harvest. It ripens very
early (1st week of August in Ottawa). Howleet notes that processing
trials in Ottawa found it to be satisfactory.
and, according to:
Brooks, R. M., and H. P. Olmo. 1972. Register of New Fruit and Nut
Varieties, 2nd. Edition. Univ. of California Press, Berkeley.
Menie is a seedling of Kurskaya x Flemish Beauty. Large fruit of
pleasant flavor and good quality; hardy, vigorous tree, slow to bear.
Recommended for home gardens.
Minie is a seedling of Zuckerbirn x Clapp’s Favorite. Fruit and tree
description is similar to that for Menie.
Both have been reported to be at least moderately resistant to fire
blight. (Mowry lists Minie as susceptible.)
From: Gord Hawkes[SMTP:logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca]
Reply To: nafex@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:00 PM
To: nafex@egroups.com
Subject: [nafex] Pear leaf spotGreetings all. We recently purchased pear nursery stock which appears
to
exhibit pear leaf spot symptoms - raised brownish spots on most
leaves.
Couple questions will sulphur control the problem or is the nursery
stock
likely going to have recovery problems from this condition? Typically
how
devestating is leaf spot?Other question is anyone familiar with the Minie and Menie pear
varieites?
What is the parentage and how do the trees typically perform?Best regards,
Gord Hawkes
Log Cabin Orchard
Osgoode, Ontario
Canada Eh!
–
Follow-Ups:
[nafex] Minie / Miney pears
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
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These are likely still a little ways from producing. Looking forward to trying them. Still no luck squiring Savignac Scion wood yet.
@ILParadiseFarm
Sounds great I appreciate the offer. I tried to order sauvignac twice from grin but the page was down. Went ahead and made my order without it. Now I’m looking again and the page is up.
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Grafting Moe and Phileson this spring. Menie has blooms already!
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Moe and Phileson have now been grafted. Im fascinated by these pears. I saw flecks of red in Moes wood when i grafted it. This discussion Help me find a pear I'd like to grow may some day have better answers with more details on these Canadian pears.
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Clark…I have 2 existing / productive pear trees that were here when we moved here…one I am almost certain is Bartlett (familiar with them as 2 of them grew in my backyard when I was a kid ), the other looks exactly like the ones in your white bucket (top picture)…compared to the Bartlett they have more pear flavour and a slight zing to them…not as big or juicy as the Bartlett but I think a better/stronger pear flavour partly due to the zing (slight tartness)…I was guessing they were D’Anjou because of the shape and size(on the medium/small size), but I have decided they may not be…the tree is probably 20 0r 25 years old I am guessing from the trunk size…as things tend to go in and out of ‘style’ I thought the age might be a clue as to what was widely available and popular at that time…of course we live in 2 different areas…but still…seems when you look back in the literature about fruit there are fairly limited choices at least commercially. I am also assuming that whoever planted the two apples and two pears that were here, did so with pollination in mind. Although I believe the pears are self fertile…so maybe that’s not a clue.
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Do you have any pictures that might give a clue? Wonderful old trees like that are fantastic! You and i are very fortunate to have mature fruit trees.
It really is…I now have well over a hundred fruit trees and a few hundred berry bushes (mostly haskap)…but I have planted all of those myself…and only a few of the trees yet producing fruit it was a great welcome to the new home site to be able to pick some fruit here the first year though.
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These pears bloom very late like my small yellow pear i suspect they are related to. They have buds but the flowers are not open yet. My hopes are many are still growing these pears but my fear is a handful of us own them. They produce fruit after grafting in about 3 years.
I wish I had them but the Canadian GRIN is not very forthcoming in allowing small fruit growers access to thier scions.
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The USA is similar they do not give small home growers access but they do give access for research. Then i can take cuttings while pruning and and give extras away. @39thparallel took many cuttings last year at my orchard. My research is documented. Canadian pears like these should be available to the world. Bernie Nikolai from Edmonton Alberta Canada might be able to get scion wood for you. He is an amazing resource in Canada. He has used pictures of my top working pear grafting methods. He has a large following on facebook. He even.has access to the russian pears. He worked with russia to import those pears from their breeding program. Ive not talked to him for a few years but im sure he’s around. @hungryfrozencanuck4b would it be possible to locate scionwood of this older canadian collection in Canada?
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Bernie is active on the following private Facebook group: Hardy Fruits and Nuts of Alberta | Facebook
They might have some people who can share scions. It is the right time of year for it.
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Wow! Quite a study you’ve done there, Clark. Thank you for sharing your research!! Happy Spring!
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I found this information but i believe it is mostly information we have. Growingfruit seems to be the best resource for these pears. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/Documents/SavignacPears96.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiG1uuY9uTvAhUaHs0KHdi7DlwQFjAEegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw0LhGXGNN9kN2x7EhKQX-D5
THE SAVIGNAC PEARS
Brother Armand Savignac is one of our pionners for grape cultivation in
Québec, and a true fruit explorer. From what I was told, he would now be over 90
years of age and was still in good health the last time I heard about him. He has
tested some 300 varieties of grape between 1945 and 1965 at Joliette, about 30
miles North-East of Montréal, in climatic zone 4. But grape is not the object of
the present article. What I would like to talk about is the fact that Brother
Savignac also had 4 pear trees in the land around his residence. Over the years,
2 of them died, but the remaining 2 have definitely proven hardy in a cold
climate. They were rediscovered about 10-15 years ago by some nurserymen of
the region of Québec who got quite excited with them and started propagating
the 2 varieties. Unfortunately, Brother Savignac had lost the tags of his trees and
couldn’t remember the names of the varieties, and the nurserymen sold their
trees under different names: Savignac #1 and #2, Round and Pointed Savignac,
Savignac and Frère Armand, and maybe a few other variations. My feeling at the
time was that all these names were wrong anyway because Brother Savignac’s
trees were surely named varieties, so I didn’t care too much about the Savignac
pears, thinking that I might as well wait until I learn which variety they really were.
But I was wrong.
Some time later, I learned a little more: Brother Savignac had obtained his
4 trees around 1947 from the Ottawa Experimental Farm and, at the time, the
cultivars were not commercially available. I did a bit of literature review at the
University and found that, in 1947-48, the Ottawa Experimental Farm released 5
pear cultivars: Enie, Menie, Miney, Moe and Phileson. My conclusion was that
the coincidence was too strong and that the 4 pear trees of Brother Savignac
had to be, in reality, 4 of these 5 cultivars that he would have recieved just prior
to their release. So, again, I didn’t care too much about the Savignac pears,
thinking that I might as well get the true cultivars when I feel I need them. But,
again, I was wrong.
I got the last word on this story a little while later when I talked with
Raymond Granger of Agriculture Canada Research Station at St-Jean-sur-
Richelieu. He had made some research on the subject and found that the trees
sent to Brother Savignac were numbered selections that have never been
named. These selections possibly were from the same crossings from which the
Enie-Menie-Moe series was issued (i.e. Zuckerbirn x Clapp and Kurskaya x
Flemish Beauty), but they are distinct varieties, and thus have the right to have
distinct names.
So now remains the problem of finding adequate names for these 2
Savignac pears. As I mentioned above, different nurserymen sold trees under
different names and someone who bought one of these trees might have
difficulty to know which one of the 2 varieties he’s got. Among the proposals I’m
aware of, the one I prefer (this is my personal preference) was done by Mr. Jean
Parisot, NAFEX member and owner of the nursery Pépinière Lotbinière, near
Québec: he suggested to call one of the cultivars “Savignac” and the other
“Frère Armand”. I understand that Brother Savignac has agreed with this
suggestion.
Following Mr. Parisot’s naming suggestion, the Savignac is a small to
medium round pear of good taste. Season early. Does not keep. Tree very
productive and very hardy in zone 4. The Frère Armand has a pear shape,
medium size, greenish-yellow, mid-season to late, not quite as good quality as
Savignac. Does not keep. Tree erected that can be difficult to manage, hardy in
zone 4. These descriptions are given after information I gathered. I haven’t yet
seen these fruits! And since Nafexians always tend to be a bit overoptimistic, I
will also give you the opinion of Mr. Granger, who I mentioned earlier: he told me
that he thought neither of these two pears are of premium quality. However, they
can be useful to people that want to grow pears in cold areas.
P.S.: Please do not write to ask for grafting wood - I don’t have any
because, for a long while, I didn’t care very much for the Savignac pears… I was
told that Saint Lawrence Nurseries at Postdam NY have at least one of these
pears, but I don’t know which one.
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They don’t let in people from Sask. I asked.
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Ok, guess I have enough variety of scions to trade they made an exception for me! PM me if you are looking for something in particular.
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Thank you for your offer, it is kind. I am fine for this season, I was just interested in other sources but I am getting to the point where space is very limited. I am doing a Red Clapp this year my Dew Drop, Flemish Beauty, Summer Blood Birne, and Aurora all made the winter. The FB page Canadian Edible Plant and Scion Exchange is a pretty good place and they allow anyone to join.
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Menie appears very prone to getting fireblight. There are several unique things about the tree. It produces its blooms in clusters very far apart in comparison to others. Like occasional patches of snow on the branches every 6 to 12 inches. They do not contain hardly any pink as most pear blossoms do. The wood is very green. It produces quickly and that excessive growth is like a magnet to many diseases. Today is April 9th it’s blooms overlap my small yellow pear and many others like tyson. Lets see if we can get it pollinated. Everything about this tree says Canada! The late bloom time can be very useful to someone in a cold climate prone to late spring frosts.
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Hoping next year to be able to try these pears. The pears formed and they dropped this year.
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