I’m thinking about getting below pest control
I’ve read many threads that recommended surround. Does anybody have experience with both surround and Captain Jacks? Which one is better? I would go for surround but it’s not available locally and only available in large quantities. I don’t want to pay much for shipping. So I figured I’ll try Captain Jacks. I just wanted to hear few opinions about it first. Thanks!
Isn’t Surround some sort of clay covering and Captain Jack’s the pesticide spinosad? Two very different things.
Pest control is about targeting the specific pests that are damaging your fruit. Surround is the only orgnanic compound that repels a very wide range of fruit insect pests. Check the active ingredient of CJ’s and search for its label on-line to see what it is supposed to control. If you tell us what region you are living in, and fruit you are trying to grow, I’m sure members can tell you what you need protection from.
I’m right outside Philadelphia. I have a peach tree, Apple tree. Will plant pear and cherry this year. I have Japanese beetles. I’ve been told that PC can be a problem here too. I haven’t noticed any so far. Another reason I don’t like surround is because it makes the trees turn completely white. Looks weird to me. CJ label says it’s effective against beetles. It’s 0.5% Spinosad.
Spinosad works on beetles, so it would be the organic choice, synthetics work better, but if you want to remain organic. You could use both too. Spinosad mostly only works on beetles, and best when in larval form. It works as a neurotoxin. It is a bacteria. Discovered at an abandoned Rum distillery. After rum fermentation, the Sugar cane left over was thrown in the back of the place, and everything was pristine. The bacteria was in the soil, and loved to eat the waste product, it was like bait for it. Thus the name Captain Jack’s Dead Bug Brew. I edited this as I had it wrong at first.
Drew, be careful what you say works- I’m not sure what you are basing this advice on but the gurus do not consider spin effective against plum curculio and recommend it for lepidoptera species only (like coddling moth). The basic necessity for organic production where you are and in the east coast is Surround according to Cornell and MSU. I only have experience with Surround, so I’m only basing this on the University commercial recs.
http://www.scaffolds.entomology.cornell.edu/2008/080331.html
Well by works, I meant used on. I have no idea if it works? Poor wording my bad. I’m not suggesting it, I myself do not use it. I was trying to explain what it was made for, I guess I failed at it. The label lists pests it is meant to use on and yes PC is not one of them. Jap. beetles are though.
I myself use Lambda-cyhalothrin for PC. It’s worked pretty good for me. It is a synthetic based on pyrethrum which comes from the flowers of chrysanthemums. It is longer lasting and more effective than pyrethrum.
Lambda-cyhalothrin is a mixture of isomers of cyhalothrin
Cyhalothrin is an organic (carbon based) compound that is used as a pesticide. It is a pyrethroid, a class of man-made insecticides that mimic the structure and insecticidal properties of the naturally occurring insecticide pyrethrum.
Last year everyone of my nectarines has a crescent strike, but only one had PC, which dropped, and I found it and killed the larvae. See how it does this year. I harvested over 150 nectarines on 2 trees last year.
Thank you. I will look up that product.
I use Bonide Fruit Tree and Plant Guard. it has it in it, but has fungicides too. I need them for brown rot, works as good or better than Monterey Fungi Fighter. I actually rotate between the two for brown rot. As they have different modes of action (attack fungi at different sites, or targets,).
I’m sure stand alone products exist too.
If I’m not mistaken that’s the active ingredient in Triazicide, which is pretty effective stuff except that apparently it can’t tolerate too much heat- so you don’t know if the bottle you bought (widely available at big box stores) sat in a hot semi in the Nevada desert for hours and is therefore not useable. I’ve used it with good results for codling moth, but I don’t depend on it because of that issue.
If you do use it be careful about bees, fish ponds, and so on.
I buy mine in the winter online
True don’t spray while flowers are blooming, as stated in label directions Always follow label directions of anything. Use acidic water, not tap water, or add vinegar or sulfuric acid to tap before putting chemical in tank.
Some info
It is highly toxic to many fish and aquatic invertebrate species. Bioconcentration is possible in aquatic species, but bioaccumulation is not likely. Binding of lambda-cyhalothrin to soil and sediment reduces exposure and may lessen the risk to fish. Field studies found no significant adverse effects to fish. Lambda-cyhalothrin is also highly toxic to bees, although again field studies found few effects. In laboratory studies, alkaline water degraded lambda-cyhalothrin with an approximate half-life of 7 days, although at neutral and acidic pH’s degradation did not occur. Sunlight accelerates degradation in water and soil. The half-life of lambda-cyhalothrin on plant surfaces is 5 days. Lambda-cyhalothrin has a low potential to contaminate ground water due to its low water solubility and high potential to bind to soil
I use both spinosad and Surround, so its not “vs” for me. Organic treatments are a lot weaker so you need to bundle them up. I also often do bundles on disease sprays, e.g. Serenade plus oil.
I have read that it becomes decreasingly effective in high heat, but not that high heat in storage destroys its efficacy permanently. Please tell me more, this could explain a lot.
It worked well for me last year, and the year before too, but I don’t have years of experience.
I think we should list all options and the user can decide. Speaking of organic, If you could find pyrethrum in a form used to spray you can stay organic and have something that kills PC. All I could find is bed bug dust.
I have some pyrethrum spray but don’t use it, spinosad is about the most potent bug killer I use. I’m not an “organic” grower I’m a “low impact” (kids in the neighborhood) grower.
That would be because you weren’t satisfied with the results you got from all organic, right?
Drew, that question was directed to Mark. You’d already explained yourself clearly.
Well, pyrethrum is organic but I’m not satisfied with how safe it is. So, my “low impact” is more strict than “organic” in terms of bug killers. But, in terms of disease control I am not “organic” for the reasons you mention, I was not satisfied with the results, and there are several synthetic disease controlling sprays that are pretty “low impact” in my mind.
A neurotoxin, yet appears to have low impact on the environment by it binding with soil and short half-life. Heat, light, alkalinity destroy it. I myself feel it is very low impact.The organic form so much so, i would not use it, too ineffective.
My problem with how dangerous is the studies would be comparable to me drinking 3 gallons, If you drank 3 gallons of water (more or less, at once) that could kill you too, and very quickly. The fact I might absorb a few micro grams does not concern me, but to each his own. I use it and try to eliminate any exposure, i was trained in how to do so. Working with live TB, HIV virus, Herpes, and multiple others. I used to isolate these things for diagnosis. I never caught anything. I treat any chemical as if it is HIV virus.
Some expose themselves even if they think they are safe. For example it is very important to follow protocol when removing gloves. People are often exposed removing gloves improperly.