Thanks for that Sue !..You just reminded me of why I probably ordered those Haralson apple trees…for storage apples. I’m just beginning to try some of the apples I’ve been planting for the past 8 years…I had about 5 to try this year that I have never had before…hoping I will have those and a few more next year. Glad to hear you liked the Goodland…by your description I am imagining something like a Mutsu (Crispin)…? …which is one of my favorites. I can’t recall which apple it was but I do recall reading that one had a bit of grape flavour…that must have been it .
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@andrew What’s your climate zone?
King David is not a super late apple here zone 7, a fall apple. Rated zones 5-9. If you’re say zone 6 I bet it would grow just fine for you, even 5. Great taste, recommend esp. if fireblight is not a big problem for you.
Also recommend Belle de Boskoop- not sure why more folks don’t grow it. Slowly the word is getting out- intense sweet and tart, crunchy, dense, multi-purpose, vigorous grower.
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It’s supposed to have Winesap as a parent at least. From Orangepippin: “Although originating in Kansas, it is often associated with Virginia, where it is still quite widely grown in pick-your-own orchards. It is believed to be a seedling of Winesap and is often known as Stayman’s Winesap.”
I’ve tried what’s called Old-Fashioned Winesap as well as Old Stayman, and Stayman. The modern Stayman is sold at farmstands and sometimes grocery stores around here. To my taste it’s far superior to either of those other two. I certainly wouldn’t call it “softer” than the Winesaps I’ve tried but then I’ve only tried that one variety.
This comment on OP sums up Stayman nicely I think:
“Staymans are quite simply the best apples in the world for anyone who loves a tart-sweet apple with substantive crispness and perfect skin bite.”
PS. Love me some King David too, glad to have gotten a graft started of it this year.
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Jonagold is neither a Jonathon or a Golden Delicious apple. Stayman to my palate is just as different from Winesap. The name may have been a marketing decision, even if it was made by the original grower.
I don’t believe it’s possible to be sure of the parent in an apple not intentionally bred.
To me, as grown here, it is a very good apple but not one of my personal top 10. However it seems capable of annual production without so much emphasis on thinning it.
I have noticed different sources describe Winesap’s in different ways and I’m not 100% confident who is correct.
EDIT Found this description of a NJ orchard who has grown apples for more than 10 generations:
“The Stayman-Winesap is a cross between a Stayman apple and a Winesap apple. The combination of the two strains produces an apple of exceptional eating quality.”
It’s my understanding that Stayman is actually a seedling from Dr Stayman’s Winesap orchard in Kansas and not a cross between Winesap and Stayman like the post suggests. I love the taste and texture of this apple but it has a tendency to slit in a wet season. It was a very popular apple in Virginia where a sport with more red color produced the “Snapp Stayman” which was patented by Adams County Nursery.
Winesap is still a popular apple in Virginia, but the commercial growers I have spoken with in Virginia have never heard of Old Fashion Winesaps. Old Fashion Winesap is a large apple, much larger than the typical Winesap - which is sometimes called Virginia Winesap. It ripens much later - around Goldrush time and still has green flesh when picked around first freeze. Lee Calhoun made a refence to OFW in his book “Old Southern Apples.” Tom Burford was a big advocate for Winesaps too and when I asked him about the best apple for a small commercial PYO orchard in NC he recommended Winesap with Grimes pollinators. I should have listened!
In my area the ripening sequence is Stayman, Virginia Winesap, Old Fashion Winesap.
In my opinion, Stayman produces the best apple of the three but it splits badly. Winesap is a small apple and produces very small trees on B9 in my area. OFW produces much larger trees and large apples. OFW is the only apple I grow which will produce fruit with zero spray in my area. No CAR, no scab, not much FB and just a few bugs but the variety is not universally available. Its not a great eating apple off the tree, but improves with storage.
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All the winesaps are good after stored a bit…but off the tree are definitely not one I’d grab for a snack. I’d almost rather have a wild orange from the swamps in Florida.
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My Stayman trees have only fruited the last 2 years and yeah quite a few split. Someone on another thread here I believe had good things to say about Snapp. If it’s better, and scion wood can be exchanged, count me in. Any Winesap varieties considered better, I’d be interested too…
Speaking of Winesap, from your description, I bet the ones I’ve eaten have been Virginia Winesap then. Your description is a closer match…
Yeah, similar for Stayman, I have only 4 that didn’t split. They’re in a bag in the fridge and I plan to sample 'em after a +1 month’s storage per. Just to compare to the ones commercially grown that we typically also store and eat throughout the winter.
Kind of like Ark Black, “spitters” right off the tree. Store 'em for a bit though…
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Put in 2 Belle de Boskoop this fall (one on B9 and one on B118 ). …also 2 Fireside (same rootstocks)…and 2 Baldwins on EMLA 106.
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Fuji is a healthy tree for me…gets a little fireblight from time to time, but 30 year old tree on M7 is basically still hanging in there. Fuji seedlings are some of the healthiest I’ve seen from seedlings in general to date. (I imagine I’ll discover others that are more apt to produce healthy offspring as I plant out more apple seeds.)
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I agree with you BlueBerry. The Fuji ( Rising Sun variety) is a very healthy tree where I am as well. I also have had very good luck with a Idared. Both trees produce a lot of really nice looking fruit.
I bought a small bag of Idared in the winter, and did not think I’d buy them again.
But, I did save 13 seed from one, and the intent is to get around to planting them to see if they make healthy seedlings.
I do have a 30 year old “not McIntosh” that has been healthy for all those years with only dormant oil spray. The more I keep trying to match it up…Black Amish and King David are the closest I’ve come, and I’m now growing both but they haven’t fruited yet. In any case, when I find the positive match, I’ll already know it’s a useful tree.
We have discovered that indeed the “skin so soft” spray works to keep mosquitos off, ( no deet) i usually forget to use it or am so busy at dusk trying to finish up that I don’t bother stopping to go inside to spray myself…i just do my watering or whatever while doing that mosquito dance…but it does work…it is pricey though.
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I’m glad it works for you, but it does nothing for me or my wife…other than make us smell good.
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Hmm…I know from my workplace that there is a handcream of the same name …are you using the spray ? Anytime I’ve had it on the mosquitos don’t even come near. There are numerous species of mosquitos…maybe it doesn’t repel some /…that would be odd
Ticks are a huge issue here also, the county has been designated as both having the black legged ticks and that they are indeed infected with Lyme…we had drought last year and are very dry so far this year so I think that keeps them down, they do like moisture.
Yep, the spray. I’ve tried it a number of times over the years. I do know that some people are more “attractive” to mosquitoes than others. They like me plenty, but they LOVE my wife. We can be sitting next to each other in the evenings (no spray) and she’ll have many more times the number of skeeters buzzing her than will I.
For ticks I spray a set of clothes for both my wife and I with permethrin. Is it “safe”? I don’t know. I do know getting Lyme’s isn’t something I want, so I wear the treated clothes. Zero ticks when I wear them.
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Those minerals in that glacial till will produce not only healthy trees but very tasty fruit !.. we are fairly flat here but our property has a few small ridges of glacial ‘dumps’ of granite and igneous rocks from up north…we are on a limestone base here and have to drive about an hour north to get to granite. I am half considering getting some basalt traprock from the quarry about an hour north of here to put around the trees for trace minerals. Not sure whether it is worthwhile/ whether I need it.
Forgot to mention I eat a *#%load of garlic …hehe, they do like me plenty but they also are definitely more attracted and repelled by dietary things I’m sure… Sometimes they are all over me…othertimes not so much (spray aside).
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I just realized my Fuji and Braeburn may have been
mixed at planting time. *Shame to decide that 30 years later, eh?
But the Fuji is too sour and I picked them before they fell…so I think they
are Braeburn…and the tree is CAR free if that is the case, more so than the Fuji. And the Fuji overcropped as I didn’t thin and are very small, but high in sugar. I’ve already inter-planted standard or simi-standard trees and eventually plan to remove the old trees.
*(From 1997 I moved and didn’t get to harvest hardly any fruits for over 15 years.) *At least I’ve got them to bearing again after years of neglect…all except the lousy Granny Smith.
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