Am I looking at it funny, or did you prune off most of the growth?
I did not prune the central leader… but did prune the 3 side branches.
The hope was to encourage the central leader to go higher. I need it to get to 5 ft at least to get above deer browse.
Its got a way to go…
Most persimmons do 2 or 3 growth spurts here… but this one only did one.
TNHunter
Then it looks like your tree grew really well in spite of the original small size.
You can’t compare it to those already established native trees on their own roots ![]()
My IKKJiro grew almost 4 ft its first year.
This Cardinal about 10 inches.
The Cardinal started off quite tiny though.
The Cardinal grew about 10" from each bud?
My Cardinal was tiny… 7 inches tall when it arrived. It ended the season 17 inches tall at the central leader. It increased in height 10 inches.
I see the side branching as support for the tree and central leader. I dont want the side branching to grow taller than the central leader and start competing with it… so I keep it pruned to be a little shorter height wise.
All that lower growth will eventually be cut off.
Once the central leader gets to 5 ft… i will tip it and start working on scaffold branches.
If it grows this slow each year it could be 4 or 5 years before scaffold branch development starts (above deer browse).
Hopefully next season it kicks in and starts growing well.
TNHunter
FWIW, mine was ~12" when it arrived, didn’t grow much 1st season. Then it exploded the next spring – before succumbing to what I assume was SDS.
I’m gonna try again, grafting a scion to healthy local rootstock (root suckers).
I broke down and ordered a $70 shipped Cardinal from OGW. I wish OGW sold scionwood…
Fingers crossed that it’s not 7" tall when it shows up! They show 278 in stock…hopefully some leftover from last year and they’ve grown a bit.
I also ordered scionwood for Izu. Plan is to grow both of these cultuvars in ~20 gallon pots and bring them into an unheated garage for the winters.
Related, I found this recent video about Izu. He describes it as not really having dwarfing tendencies as commonly touted, other than perhaps growing slower when young due to its precociousness.
One Green World has an in person scion offering event this coming weekend. Though they probably aren’t offering persimmon, especially trademarked ones.
Also, I agree, my Izu doesn’t seem to lack vigor. I have it on a tree with what is probably Jiro or a sport, and Matsumoto Wase. It holds its own.
I think all of them are small right not since they recently got released. I hope you didn’t get the 5 inch banded pot one because that thing was barely 3 inches when i checked in person
i went there to try to pick up that cool new pomegranate but it was literally ----------‐-------------------------------- tall and about – thick
Were there any results or consensus on Cardinal? Is it really that much earlier than other varieties? How productive and/or vigorous is it? I have a nice sunny spot now for a new tree and thinking about a persimmon: Nikita’s Gift or Cardinal. I’m leaning towards Nikita’s Gift because I have never tried an american persimmon and I hear it is a really tasty combination of kaki & american. But, as I’m looking at OGW I’m seeing a bunch of other varieties (Oriole, Robin, Phoenix) that I can’t find much about. Anybody try these others? I’m north of Seattle so I need something fairly early because of a lack of heat units. But it is hard to tell from the fruit descriptions; Hachiya for example is described as “early” but I’ve never heard of anyone getting Hachiya to ripen up here.
I see that in their description now on their website, but that’s the first I’ve heard of Hachiya being early.
I just got a cardinal from burnt ridge so it will be a while until I can verify it is early enough. The president of the local fruit tree club has a fuyu that doesn’t quite ripen
Cardinal ought to ripen well before Fuyu.
You may have seen my speculation that OGW is surreptitiously selling the Japanese release “Soshu” as Cardinal. Japanese breeders identify Soshu as the earliest-ripening PCNA variety.
Meanwhile, hopefully your local president is picking his not-quite-ripe Fuyu and finishing them indoors.
I tried OGW’s Cardinal 2 years in a row, '22 and '23. The little wispy starts died each winter (the low in my northerly PNW for both those years was 7F). In retrospect, I should have grown them out for at least a year before planting out.
My 3-year old Nikita’s Gift, however, planted at the same time as Cardinal, made it through those winters and produced one fruit last year in mid November.
About 3 weeks earlier than that was my 7 year old Matsumoto Wase, producing fruit for the first time.
As for taste, Nikita’s Gift and Matsumoto Wase were both slightly sweet but not as good as those grown in Seattle and southward.
Even growing under an 8’ polytunnel I just can’t get enough heat units.
My Cardinal from OGW is about 5 ft tall now. It had a handful of fruit on it last year, but it dropped them all long before they were close to ripe, as is typical of young persimmon trees. It might be able to ripen a few fruit this summer and see how early they are compared to other non-astringents.
As @cdamarjian points out, your micro-climate makes ALL the difference. When you say North Seattle, it really doesn’t tell the whole story.
To be fair, we are marginal for persimmons, figs, feijoa, or anything that is considered sub-tropical. Even pawpaws are marginal IMO. But if you are in the city and have good south facing sunlight and maybe some way to increase heat like a retaining wall behind the trees, you might be able to grow things only reliably possible in the Willamette valley.
Based on my experience, Hachiya isnt sweet enough here. Most Americans arent sweet enough either.
The best persimmons at my location are Nikita’s gift, Jiro, Chuchupaka, H118, H63a, Coffee Cake, Mikatani Gosho, Honan Red, Maru. All of these are spectacularly good.
I am trialing dozens of others. - Not Cardinal though.
What are the worst? Or the just meh? By category – American, Hybrid, PCNA Kaki, PVNA Kaki, PCA Kaki?
Morris Burton, A-118, Saijo, Giombo, Hachiya, Zenji Maru,
I’ll give Zenjimaru one more year.
I’m grafting over all the others above and will have scionwood to share. Or they are all going in yard waste.
Please tell me more about Saijo and Giombo. Do they make plentiful fruit that looks good but doesn’t sweeten, or perhaps stays astringent?
Or are they not productive for you?