Thanks @jrd51 and @snarfing. I was just wondering if anyone on the forum had direct experience and could comment.
Is it really black skinned? How does it taste? I bought it just for the color. I had a raven that was black. The taste was not impressive.
Yes, the skin is actually blsck. Flavor is really good/excellent. I’ve posted lots of pictures.
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What’s the texture like? I like the flavor of JT-02, but I find the watery texture is disappointing.
We need to cross JT-02 with some of the monoecious Ukrainian hybrids, such as Stepova Krasunya, Bozhyi Dar, and Universal.
texture is less watery and more firm than JT-02. But I like them all including JT02. I would not describe JT02 as watery, more like softer, more honey like. they are all unique in their own way.
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I’m looking for one I actually like. Rossyanka is good pollinated or unpollinated but not as good as any American inhave tasted so far. Nikita’s goft is only good when it’s pollinated otherwise it has too much of that betacarotene flavor. I’m looking for one that is firm when ripe and american flavored but kaki sized otherwise I just dry them.
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I’m not sure that one exists. The hybrids, to my knowledge, are all intermediate in taste between American and kaki persimmons. And they’re all going to be soft when ripe (though I recall mention of a PVNA hybrid…) You can treat most of the hybrids with ethanol to remove astringency when still firm, but they will not be firm ripe without intervention.
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What? Kaki size, American flavor, but firm like a PCNA Kaki when ripe? Is that too much to ask???
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I read , if memory serves me, that sestronka was like that so I grafted that variety. If I remember correctly there is a youtuber called ockoofarm that has some videos of hybrids and he names one that supposedly is as big as a kaki but with the flavor of american. Most kakis i have tasted have the carrot taste that is found in caracara oranges and sweet potatoes unless they were pollinated. Even the non astringents have it.
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Probably ( as if i’m a scientist haha I eat ‘em not breed ‘em) needs to be an f2 hybrid. Big or intense american crossed with kaki then back crossed with American. Can any one confirm a distinct difference in taste between chinese or japanese kaki? I only have japanese. I don’t detect a strong difference between them.
A dream shared by many! It’s likely at least 3 or 4 generations of trees away. Here’s an extensive discussion on the subject if you’re ready for your head to explode.
Regarding the reported “American” taste, it’s all on a spectrum, and different folks have their own ideas of where to draw the line. Some people would disqualify certain American cultivars as being too “bland!” So, take everything you read with a grain of salt.
Someday, hopefully!
“American crossed with kaki” is easier said than done. It has only happened twice in history with enough success to produce a named variety – Rossiyanka and JT-02/Mikkusu. Nikita’s Gift is Rossiyanka x OP (thought to be DV). All of that seems like what you ask for – unless we think that the specific varieties used in this breeding process are inferior. It’s tough to tell as the original Kaki mother is not identified and the DV fathers are either not identified or unknown (OP).
The next generation (recent releases) is mostly Nikita’s Gift x DV. Most of these persimmons are decent size. What would you suggest as next steps? It should be relatively easy to cross, say, Bozyhi Dar, Stepova Krasunya, or Universal (all monoecious) with any tasty American female.
JT-02 / Mikkusu is a different story. The original hybrid is Josephine x Taishu. I don’t know anything about the taste (or other traits) of Josephine. Taishu is as good as it gets among PCNA Kakis. I recently started a thread implicitly asking for more work here. What would you suggest as a male-flowering variety to cross with JT-02?
p.s. Persimmons originated in China then were exported to Japan. There shouldn’t be much taste difference unless selection pressures differed in the two countries during domestication. Of course, the J-PCNA mutation occurred in Japan.
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Size of American/Kaki hybrids is perfectly ok for me. As a home grower, I am perfectly satisfied with the overall quality of these hybrids - flavor, productivity, cold hardiness etc.
Some may want more cold hardiness - personally I think that is a more worthy goal than breeding for size which I find optimal right now.
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Is there a tetraploid hybrid that makes male flowers with PCNA in parentage we can cross to a tetraploid PCNA?
If there are multiple tetraploid hybrids, maybe pick the one that doesn’t need to get so ripe to lose astringency?
Hopefully I’m understanding all this correctly
Where I am I have no concern for cold tolerance with persimmons. I like the different flavors and colors so I got the chuchupacka because of the dark skin.
No. There are no tetraploid kakis, as far as I know. So a tetraploid hybrid seems out of the question.
And PCNA Kakis are hexaploid, per usual for Asians, though evidently there are some nonaploid PVAs.
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Nonaploid? This is new to me. I will research this. I don’t think I have any fruit like this in my collection.
According to my notes, the following varieties are nonaploid:
Hira Tanenashi
Tonewase
Ohtanenashi
Kohshimaru
Miyazakitanenashi
Watarizawa