Please tell us where you are so we can map where Dar Sofiyivky grows across America from South to North. This way we can map where its being grown and it’s hardiness!
I will have 2 grafts going this May in Omaha, Nebraska.
Tony
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Aledo IL. I have it grafted. I don’t have it planted. Dax
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I’m in Rockingham, Vermont. I grafted several last year, and am looking forward to seeing how they do. All are in the ground.
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I have plenty of questions for you:
Can you tell me how much roots and/or planted / or grafted above ground (established tree with how much caliper and at which height) ? / If planted is the union planted beneath the earth and how deep are (a) union planted?
That area you live in has zone 5a, 5b, all so close together and 4 not all that far since it’s so tight of a state. How cold do you get every 10 or 20 years and what are winter temps there like most years in degrees F?
Wonderful news !
2 in the ground since 1 year, Germany, comparable to PNW or similar short summer locations.
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I’m excited to be trying it out, along with several other hybrids, and equally excited to be pooling knowledge, experience, and resources with you all. Its great that there’s so much fervor for persimmons here. I’m all about it.
I think there’s a good chance some of these hybrids are viable fruit producers here most years. As I’ve mentioned in other posts, I’m not too hung up on hardiness here, as that seems pretty iron clad. Its mostly ripening time that I’m concerned with. I’ve been growing persimmon since 2007. In that time, I’ve seen them thrive even compared to other tree crops I’m growing, and so have come to the conclusion that I should grow many more. I went from 4 varieties (Prok, Yates, Mohler, Szukis) to 25 varieties in the last couple of years, of which 6 are hybrids. I have about 3 acres of space to work with, and I’m devoting more of it to persimmons than anything else.
I’m using field grown seedling rootstock, plus some suckers that have strayed far from the crown, so all topworked in-ground trees, never in pots. I also have a couple of dozen 4 year old seedlings in nursery beds that were grafted last year, too. The soil is exceptionally tilthy, so they should come out with lots of fine roots intact. I’d tend to think in terms of how much a graft grows as an indicator of when its ready to be planted out, and I’m thinking both of doing it too early (having it be weak) and too late (being too hard to dig and plant without butchering the roots).
I’ve never thought to bury the graft union. I make sure and have 2 or more of any must have varieties, and I’d take wood and graft more if I ever had an issue with one. I try to graft at about 2’ high as that’s the height of the steel mesh tree guards that I favor (though voles don’t seem particularly attracted to persimmons). I’m typically doing a side graft and leaving some nurse growth to keep sap flowing up the stem. I feel that it improves the take, and the stem provides a ready made stake. I had 6 ft. or more of growth on some of my top worked seedlings, so breakage is a pretty big concern. The Dar Sofiyivky grafts were done late in the season- maybe mid-July or so- because thats when I received the wood. They seemed to harden off nicely and put on several 6-8" branches worth of new growth, probably not quite pencil diameter. I’ll prune all but one so that they can push a lot this year, and so that I can get some wood to a few other like minded growers nearby. If past experience is anything to go on, they’ll shoot up several ft. and grow to 1/2 " caliper at least by fall.
The growing zone maps for Vermont are not nearly high enough resolution to be relied upon. Looking at pictures of your place, Dax, the difference is striking. With so much undulating topography here, site is everything. Temp. is something that is unfolding in a palpable way. Air masses moving, radiation being emitted. Driving down the rd., I can watch the car thermometer drop as I descend my hill on a frosty fall evening. I routinely see 5-6 degrees difference descending ~500 ft. in ~ 1 1/2 miles. Even at my house, I have often toyed with setting thermometers at different heights and seen dramatic differences. I spent a bit of time reading this book “The Climate Near the Ground” by Rudolf Geiger The Climate Near The Ground : Geiger,Rudolf. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive and its pretty enlightening. I can imagine how much of this is less applicable to flat terrain, though.
On my site, about 2/3 the way up a ~1000ft. hill rising out of two river valleys, facing SE, I’ve routinely seen between -10 and -15 degrees once or twice most winters. I’ve seen -20 once. Most winters, we see a stretch of weather in the single digits above or below zero. Never have I seen or heard of these temps being sustained for more than a few hrs. I can always watch the mercury drop after sundown, hitting its low just before dawn. And because these coldest events occur only when its extremely clear w/ abundant high pressure, I can watch the temp climb 20 or more degrees at sun up.
For perspective on the relatively usefulness of the USDA maps, we just experienced our low for this winter in mid-February. My thermometer registered -18.8 F (it was 50 deg. the next day!) Comparing this with a friend the next day who ostensibly lives in the same (or depending on the map, slightly warmer) USDA zone, he had registered -30, and had pictures to prove it. His house is ~10 miles from mine. Similar things happen with frost free days here. I’ve seen consistently ~160 frost free days per year, with ~185 in an exceptional year. Kiev, Ukraine by comparison averages about ~180 frost free days. A poor site very nearby me might easily have 30+ days fewer growing season. In many cases, its actually bottom land ideal for cultivation that has the shortest season, as the cold air drain off of the hills. In the heyday of commercial apple cultivation here, orchards were sited on the tallest hills, as growers favored the frost protection afforded even over soil depth, soil fertility, protection from wind, etc. I have a collection of old agriculture books, and its interesting to note how much the climate has moderated here in the past decades. The nearest town was historically one of 1/2 dozen or so places where weather data was tracked historically, and books from the 1920’s or so talk about this area having around 135 frost free days, with 150 in an exceptional year. Also interesting the degree to which exceptional is becoming unexceptional. I’ve grown accustomed to planting tender things May 1 or so, and harvesting all but the hardy stuff by about Halloween. The traditional dates would have been more like June 15 and Sept 1, historically. One thing that seems not to have changed remarkably, though, is the minimum temperature. The lowest temp. ever on record for my town is very close to what I’m routinely seeing. I’ll have to drum up the exact figure, but its around -25. Measured exactly where, IDK
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thank you.
How is everyone’s Dar Sofiyivky doing by now?
How about some pictures?
I got my hands on a tiny little stick that had 4 buds on it last year.
Here is what 2 of them did.
Grafted on existing tree in the woods.
5/23
6/23
7/23
8/23
11/23
-6F was the low this winter, no damage.
Here are a couple started this year.
Ok, I showed some of mine.
Let’s see some of yours.
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Since Dar Sofiyviky died to the snow line at -17F in Illinois for Dax and Omaha for me. I may have to stick with JT-02 and my 20 Hybrids of Jerry Lehman hybrid male 400-5 crossed with Prok, H-118,H-120, Meader, Lena.
Tony
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What is the fruit quality like on Dar Sofiyivky? Is the flavor more like an American persimmon or an Asian?
Forgot to add I’ll be planting it this year as a curiosity. I’m in zone 7, Nevada. Asian persimmons can survive here, but the growing season is too short for them to thrive.
@tonyOmahaz5 I hate to hear that! I’m in Illinois too but farther south than Dax.
I thought I was finally going to get to try JT-02 this year, my tree that was fruiting blew down in a storm a couple weeks ago. Broke off at the ground below the graft.
@iowacity No idea on the fruit, time will tell.
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This is superbly helpful as someone currently trying to site some trees on the side of a southeast facing hill about 1,000 ft up in a putative zone 5.
I have one still in a pot - we are 90 min north @hobilus in VT in z5a (higher latitude but also next to lake Champlain which helps offset the cold)
I was kind enough to get a stick from @Fusion_power (thanks again)
It will go in the ground in full sun this weekend and I will protect it this winter
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In another thread, there was a question whether to stake a young tree. From experience, I knew to worry about wind. This is a great, if very unfortunate, example. I live in a windy site. The prevailing wind is from the west. ALL of my trees have a strong stake (e.g., rebar) on the west side to prevent the sort of bending that would break the tree at the graft or elsewhere.
That’s after losing two trees that were unsupported. 
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booger
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They are all grew back from the photos above. I will fatten them up with 46-0-0 Urea Nitrogen this spring and tested them out again this coming Winter. Hopefully the bark and trunk will be thicker and see if they can handle more cold weather like -22F?
Tony
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I have several growing in tall pots but they were just grafted this year and are still very small.
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I plan to graft it here in SE MI when I can find some scion wood, probably next spring. We are 6a now, formerly edge of 5b. But, we have less heat/fewer growing degree days than most other 6a locations in the eastern US, so will be interesting to see how it performs.