Differences in persimmon rootstock options

General Fruit Growing
#1

I was wondering if anyone knew the general differences between the different rootstock options for persimmons.

I know virginiana is preferred in most of the US due to cold tolerance, but is there a reason other than lack of a need for cold tolerance that they use lotus (or maybe kaki?) in places like CA? Are some more tolerant of different types of soils? Compatibility? Salinity? Do some affect precocity? Disease resistance? Other concerns? I have an in-ground outdoor lotus here and it seems very vigorous, which I suppose could be good and bad.

This link here (fairly old article from what I can tell), seems to imply that Lotus is not a good general purpose rootstock and seems to have some issues with Fuyu:
http://avocadosource.com/CAS_Yearbooks/CAS_25_1940/CAS_1940_PG_43-44.pdf

This link (from a 1982 publication) seems to indicate somewhat the same, that kaki is preferred. It also mentioned that those on virginiana declined. Kaki was purportedly the rootstock on the oldest orchards:
http://cemerced.ucanr.edu/files/208392.pdf

CRFG states that kaki is temperamental but I’m not sure what that means (difficult to graft? some seedlings are good and others not?), and virginiana as inconsistent (again, not sure exactly what they mean by that):
https://crfg.org/wiki/fruit/persimmon/

Does anyone know of a solid source for kaki seed or seedlings? Or a better source of information as to the benefits and drawbacks of each of these rootstocks?

I’m considering trying out a few trees in a greenhouse setting where cold wouldn’t be as much of a problem (temps only down into the low 20s). It would be nice to have a rootstock that liked those conditions, was vigorous, and didn’t send up root sprouts like virginiana.

Thanks!

#2

Virginiana is supposed to be more saline tolerant. If you are in a colder area, it is your best bet as it apparently makes the tree more cold hardy
https://hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/japanese_persimmon.html

In nearly all traditional areas where persimmon is grown (Spain, Japan, China) Lotus or similar is preferred.
I have persimmons on both rootstock and they perform great on both.

Japanese seem to be using clonal rootstock. They also dwarf the tree.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/hortj/88/1/88_UTD-020/_html/-char/en

2 Likes
#3

Thanks for the info. Very interesting regarding the clonal rootstocks. I wonder if anyone has imported and tried those here?

Good to note regarding salt tolerance. Perhaps the benefits of virginiana would be evident even in a tunnel environment. I do like it for its tap root and cold tolerance.

Tim

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#4

That Japanese article is fascinating. I’ll admit I skipped thru the charts and sciency-cy stuff 'cause I don’t understand it.

I learned how to propagate persimmons from softwood cuttings and learned that these dwarfing persimmon rootstocks they’ve created have capabilities of both stopping a tree in it’s tracks at height and the trees are growing horizontally, after. Fascinating! They also could pass flowering precocity to the scion-tree. Again, wow.

I saw something about fruit size and self-thinning, too. I’m going to re-read this.

Thanks for that article @ramv

@timclymer you should trade or ask for seed with the Trading Post category on the group. Get some hybrid seed or kaki. I’ll bet ramv could help and possibly make a determination according to vigor which seed variety would be best. Hey, good luck!

Dax