Dormant Spray and Copper Spray


#161

Mike,
On the top right hand corner of this page, there is a couple of symbols. The one with three short lines (next to your avatar) is the list of all the categories.

Click on that symbol. Then, click on Guides. List of spray and amount used
(per gallon of water) is there.

NuFilm 17 is listed under Sticker/Spreader and is only 1/2 tsp per gal of water.


#162

Thank you for the clarification. I was reading off the label and read it as " 4 oz o solution to a pint of water" NOT as 4 oz of solution - to a pint of solution -PER 100 gallons of water. I was reading it like a recipe not as a recommendation of strength ranges. That makes a lot more sense.:crazy_face:

I thought the 4oz for a pint of water was ridiculously high. Also I thought there is no way that a person would use this economically if they had a huge numbers of trees.

With my off base calculations I would only get about 8 gallons of water solution per gallon of $60 Nu Film 17. Making it about $7.50 per gallon for a solution/water tank plus the small cost of the other chemicals added to this Nu Film 17 mixture.
I have a 2 gallon tank, taking 4-6 gallons of water solution spray per spraying = $30-45 to spray one time. I could not justify that. Now that I have this clarification it makes it easier to justify buying at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water. That makes it about 4 cents a gallon cost. WAY more cost effective at getting 1536 doses per gallon of Nu Film 17 than just 8 doses.

Thank you for the clarification and my trees thank you too. I would have killed them all with just one spraying at my odd calculation dosages.


#163

These are not decisions made by a jury of objective bureaucrats- I believe if a company wants labeling for home use it represents another expensive round of hurtles that are often redundant- but sometimes it is about the high concentration of the pesticide and the manufacturer doesn’t choose to invest in the residential market by offering more dilute formulations.

If you do a search for scientific study of health consequences of OP’s from normal usage, the data is contradictory and controversial. Most cases of acute poisonings have come from suicide attempts. 90% of overall poisonings in the U.S. come from drugs but the percentage from pesticides seems impossible to find, indicating a relatively small number.

For me, the best indication that OP’s are not excessively dangerous is the farmers health study by the U.S. Dept. of Health following the health records of farmers and their spouses for over about 25 years now. A lot of these farmers are older people who were highly exposed to all forms of OP’s before there was much concern (don’t forget that DDT was routinely used on humans to treat lice in the '50’s). As I’ve often mentioned here, these farmers are much healthier, live much longer and get less cancer than the overall populations in their states.

This doesn’t mean that the pesticide application aspect of their life-style is not detrimental to their health, or doesn’t increase certain types of cancer, but it is a clear indication that these materials are not as dangerous to human health as the general public assumes.

Imidan is actually not considered very effective on plant bugs (or Avaunt)- at least according to Cornell. It certainly didn’t seem to control tarnished plant bug on my property. Neonics and pyrethroids are more effective.


#164

It wasn’t my insight I was reading the product label. Not my quote about birds, from the label.
Reading the actual label would be more helpful than sending me to a 16 year old document, that obviously is out of date.
If you think the company is overstating the dangers of it’s own product, take it up with them. Again I didn’t say it was toxic to birds, Dupont does. I just can’t see using a product that is toxic to birds, not only at home, but anywhere.
The label also says it’s toxic to mammals, so I can see why it is banned from home use. We are not professionals and need products that are safer for hime use than Avaunt.


#165

Being poisonous to birds doesn’t mean it endangers them during normal use. Without context you aren’t clarifying anything- the concern on the label is about allowing it in lakes and streams, not when used according to the label or from birds consuming sprayed fruit. We’ve already established that pyrethroid toxicity is unusually specific to insects- the problem is the wide range of insects. But you are rational to feel a level of safety from this from accidental poisoning.

This is misleading and not helpful. If you spray a nest established in a tree most insecticides are likely harmful- I recommend removing nests before eggs are laid in orchards. Most bird fruit predation is of nearly ripe fruit and there is nothing on the label that suggests birds can be poisoned from fruit consumption on sprayed trees- the REI likely takes care of that issue.

Most insecticides are toxic to birds, mammals, fish and aquatic invertebrates and most labels contain the exact same statement. . Avaunt is less toxic than most.

And I did read the label before writing that comment. http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld4BD003.pdf


#166

Take it up with Dupont. i can only go with what was written, none of what you said is on the label. The products I use do not say toxic to birds. I cannot go with your advice, I have to assume they know what they are talking about.
An example as were talking about it. Bonide’s Fruit Tree and Plant Guard label does not say it’s toxic to birds, if it did, I would not use it.
I can see some not drawing a line at bird toxicity, but for me I do draw the line there.Everybody has to decide for themselves as to what they feel is safe. I prefer to error on the side of caution.


#167

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld4BD003.pdf Check the label for Asana, a pyrethroid I use and compare to Avaunt, and tell me which one seems more dangerous. http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ldC7Q000.pdf


#168

OK, I give up, you know it all. I would agree a product containing the carcinogenic Xylene. A solvent just like Benzene or gasoline is more dangerous. The products I use do not contain cancer causing solvents.


#169

Whether you believe it or not, I’m only trying to help keep this forum a useful source of information. It’s spring and I’d much rather be spending time on other things, but many forum members are in the process of deciding what they will spray this season.


#170

Yes I’m one of them.


#171

I’m planning to do my delayed dormant copper spray on Sunday after the rain moves away. I will have 4 days of no rain period after that. I also need to spray Sevin because I lost 4 trees to shot hole borer last year. How much time does copper need to work? How many days after copper can I spray sevin?


#172

This should help’’’’


#173

Thank you for posting the link. A lot of useful info. But I wasn’t able to find anything that mentions how long I need to leave copper as is before applying another product.


#174

Honestly. I spray mine together. Haven’t seen any issues. But I’m not a pro. Maybe a better versed grower will chime in. Best of luck…


#175

Would this chart help?

http://www.agriculture-biodiversite-oi.org/fr/content/download/838/6794/version/2/file/Compatibilitychart.pdf

From the chart carbaryl and copper, both hydroxide and oxychloride are fine together.


#176

Thank you. The version of Sevin I’m using is not cabaryl. Active ingredient says Zeta- cypermethrine. I see Cypermethrine on that list (I’m guessing it’s the same as Zeta cypermethrine) and it doesn’t look to be compatible with copper. Plus I’m wondering if sevin needs to be on top since it’s a kill-on-contact kind of product.


#177

And You’ve never noticed any ill effect? If so, that’s good enough for me. I guess no need to worry too much about these things.


#178

Susu,

You said for delayed dormant spray. Your trees already push buds?

Mine are either dormant or silently dead (early stone fruit).


#179

Well…most of the buds are still shut. Exception is yellow transparent which is showing bud break.


#180

I’m not familiar with shot hole borer but I lost a bunch of grafted trees to another form of ambrosia beetle here in NC. When I inquired about the proper chemical to control the beetle at a grower meeting, I was told that none had proved to be very effective.

Are you sure Zeta- cypermethrine is effective against the shot hole borer?