I’m beginning to plan my home orchard. I’m part of several Facebook groups, and it seems like most of the large orchard operators plant dwarf trees exclusively. My understanding is dwarf Trees will bear fruit earlier and pretty much the only downside is they need support.
I understand why a commercial orchard would plant dwarf trees, but I think a lot of that can carry over into a small private orchard as well. My goal is to have a variety of apples that I can harvest from mid summer into early winter. I have no desire to make money Off of the harvest. I am in northeast Pennsylvania, right on the edge of 6a/6b of the updated hardiness map
Does anyone have any input on dwarf vs semi dwarf?
Welcome to the forum Scott.
There’s a lot to consider as you deliberate, but this site has many members much more experienced than I on apples specifically. I will leave you with my experience. I have a twenty year old Chehallis on semi dwarf rootstock that ultimately required staking to stay upright. I have another multi variety on G890 rootstock that does not appear it will need staking after 6 years of growth. The main factors you need to consider are:
Are predators in you area such as deer. If so you need taller trees or a method of protecting such as a high fence.
Acreage you have suitable to growing apples that has adequate all day sun exposure.
The labor you desire to save as you manage them.
Dwarfs are much easier to manage although initial cost may be higher unless you are willing to graft your own trees. I recommend the latter just so you have more skills to manage them later. Apples are the easiest to learn how to graft so a lot can be saved if you graft.
Semi dwarfs may give you more production per square foot, and if you select a good stable rootstock can be kept at a low height for all tasks to manage. As you are planning what sounds like a fair number of trees I also suggest you stool several quality rootstocks to reduce cost of initial investment in the rootstocks. Suggest you look up the threads posted by @Allen who is quite experienced and I think is managing an orchard closer to your location. There may be regional considerations I am not familiar with that he could discuss.
Good luck
Dennis
Kent, wa
Thanks for the response, we definitely have deer around. What height can I expect the lower limbs to be on a dwarf tree vs semi?? … I wonder if I get a larger growth potential dwarf rootstock would that be a happy medium. I have 12 acres that gets full sun nearly from sunrise to sunset
When I started I planted all dwarfs (actually interstems with dwarf on top of M111) and the deer pressure meant they were regularly browsed back and eventually they sort of runted out. It only took a few passes from the deer per season to wipe out most of the year’s growth. I eventually removed all 6 of those trees after getting just a handful of fruit over 5 years.
Since then I’ve planted a few trees on G969 (semi dwarf rootstock) and I am much happier with those. They gave me enough growth to get most of the tree above the browse line and I had a nice crop of apples on my 3 year old Kerr. I would have had more on a neighboring MonArk, but the squirrels stole most of those before they were ripe. The other advantage of the semi-dwarf trees is you get more fruit per tree so if you are losing them to squirrels and birds you have more chance that you’ll at least get a few. No promises though, my squirrels are merciless.
If you are going to completely fence them in or live somewhere without animal pressure, I guess dwarfs can work for the home grower, but I’ll never plant one again. It is very easy to manage the height of a semi-dwarf with a little summer pruning and I have enough growth that I can make choices in shaping the tree vs. not feeling like the dwarfs had anything to spare.
Good luck and keep us updated on how things work out.
I currently have about 16 semi dwarfs planted, and each of them have a 4 foot deer fence around them, which has prevented any deer damage. But of course, my end goal would be to have no fence, mainly for aesthetics.… maybe I will stay on the semidwarf path and just stay with the less vigorous rootstocks in the semidwarf area
For the money; M111 is a great all round choice in expense, known abilities, and decent disease resistance. Not Geneva level resistance. But not bad.
You will wait a while for apples though.
Here I’m going to dwarves’ for space and disease resistance. I’m growing for trimming scionwood to spread cultivars around. And experiment to see how foreign apples do in 8B. It will likely be a Geneva I go with as if there is a disease; we will get it…lol
When I do plant for yard fruit; it will be on very M111 like G.935/969/890. All 4 are fine trees. A few{Royal Sweet and Circassian} will go on Dolgo seedlings away from everything else. As they will be huge trees.
My trees are on M111. It can be trained to e deer prof, squirrel proof, Raccoon proof, and opossum proof and have plenty of room above for great crops. Just add baffles at 5 feet. First limb a 7 feet.
Deer stealing your fruit and eating all the new growth is annoying, and the new growth part can significantly setback or kill a tree if it’s severe enough, but a buck deciding your tree doesn’t really need a three foot long ring of bark around the trunk is a pretty major issue not solved by inconveniently high first scaffold branches. Search results for 'deer damage' - Growing Fruit
Your tree needs to reach 7’ first still anyway, so you’re still looking at a tree tube, fence, whatever to get it there for at least a year or two.
Unless you really want a 25’ tree I’d go with one of the “semi-dwarf” G9xx rather than “semi-standard” M111 (to use Cummins’ terminology). You’ll get a taller, less petite tree, and you’ll get fruit sooner too probably.
I climb my 25 foot pear trees and pick. Holding onto the trunk I can pick pears 6 feet out. I am 66.5 years old unless you are Catholic then I am 67 years old.
Welcome to the forum Scott. I would plant semi dwarf because the tree will last longer and give you more fruit. The dwarf are cute and all but they die sooner than semi dwarf. The part about giving you fruit sooner is a matter of much subjectivity. I have some dwarf and mostly semi dwarf and I have gotten fruit off both in the same amount of time or I have not gotten fruit off of dwarf or semi dwarf. Some of the ones I am not getting fruit from are coming out this spring. So I have good luck and bad luck with both. Good luck picking the size and varieties you grow and enjoy later on.
Yeah, I think there are too many rigid pigeon holes concerning Apple varieties. I really do not think an Apple knows it is a Northern/Southern type. Reading Kueffle Creek. it seems some apples like Hot weather too much. Where a “Northern” apple grows very well including fruiting. And it just goes vigorous and turns increasingly mealy each year. Some grow like they were born there. Some are just pretty non-fruiting trees. Some Southern Apples are not bothered by zone 3 winters. You just do not really know until you try it. Some very proven Southeast Apples suck on the Pacific coast.
One of my concerns about dwarf pear trees is what happens if fireblight strikes. There’s not a lot of wiggle room on dwarfs. I’ve had to cut an entire scaffold off, and then been very concerned that the trunk might be involved.
With larger trees, it’s not such a big deal. They can handle such pruning, even if it requires a series of cuts. One apple tree went from central leader to open center after major cuts had to be made. It’s fine now, but with a slightly different look. If it had been a dwarf it would have been a goner. Bigger trees are just more resilient, (and quite beautiful) if you have room for them.
Well I am a 82.5 year old non-Catholic and I enjoy picking my fruit from the ground. I also enjoy spraying my dwarf and semi-dwarf trees from the ground. I have a solar powered single wire electric fencer that protects my trees and fruit from the deer. My Jack Russell takes care of the coons, squirrels and possums. I don’t let her chase deer.
You are going to have to post a video of yourself harvesting, spraying and pruning your tree 25’ in the air
