I picked a few illini and Ouachita today… a couple days earlier than last years first blackberries.
I hadn’t quite done my research when I planted my current Blackberry patch, and only planted Ouachita and a big box variety that I’m not sure of the name. Now, I wish that I would have done more research and planted a primocane variety. That said, my berries are on their second year and are growing like weeds and producing fruit. The first fruits I feel should be ripening any day now.
That said, one of my next projects that I want to undertake is to remove the native brush where my property meets the forest, and plant a bramble of mixed varieties of berries. My preferences would be that the varieties I select have thorns. Preferably serious thorns.
This might be worthy of another thread, but I would appreciate any thoughts on berries that would meet my desire for thorny berries. I would like to throw out a mix of raspberries and blackberries that can take over the space and provide a first line of defense towards my more valuable trees, berries, and annuals.
Any thoughts?
Kiowa has some serious thorns.
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Kiowa is indeed thorny! But also produces HUGE berries!
If you can keep a little eye on things… Himalayan blackberry. You will never have to worry about watering or maintaining or anything except for its invasiveness.
Nothing wrong with Eastern Blackberries either. They need no care.
If you want to go with something that has better berries but needs some attention… go with Cherokee, Kiowa…also Chickasaw. (my choices)
As far as Rasps- You could throw some Caroline every few plants… they have nasty thorns…good big berries.
May as well add in a couple of Fall Golds to keep it interesting.
With these choices you could have a dandy edible hedge. That you can eat off of from Spring til Fall if you choose wisely.
If your zone permits it… you should get some of Clark’s heirloom blackberries. He calls them Healthberry. Nasty Thorns…get tall and spread like wildfire.
Not sure if space permits but also worth mentioning the hybrids like Boysen, Tay, Logan etc… all can have nasty thorns and canes can get 20 feet…but u have to trellis them.
Since u want thorny… you may as well throw up a trellis wire made of barbed wire for extra protection.
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I’ve noticed that the two Ponca I planted last year are putting out several suckers, more so than the Natchez and Caddo plants that were also planted last year.
I didn’t see any fruit buds on the Ponca’s (or Caddo) but they didn’t have very big floricanes, but my Natchez does have several ripe berries on its 4ft long floricane.
I planted 10 Ponca tissue culture plants last spring. Growth was decent with most producing 4 to 5 foot canes. They should produce a few gallons of ripe berries over the next month. What is surprising is the size of the new growth canes coming in this year. Most of them are 3/4 of an inch diameter or even larger.
I planted the same time as you. I’m experiencing the same thing super thick canes coming in on Ponca.
TexasPrepper2 just did a review and taste test this week.
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Blackberries grown in containers usually are smaller than grown in ground. I disagree with his “explosion of flavor” comment. He is not comparing apples to apples. If you want to figure out how the flavor compares with other varieties, you need more varieties to compare with. I compared with a wild blackberry that has exceptional flavor but is not quite as sweet and also compared with Caddo. Ponca is distinctly sweeter and a bit better flavored than Caddo. It is sweeter than the wild blackberry, but nowhere near as rich in flavor. There is also a slight off whang to the flavor of Ponca.
I’m still harvesting a few Ponca berries. Slightly overripe berries IMO taste best with decent tang and sweetness. Growth habit is dramatically different than Caddo, so much so that managing Ponca will be much different. Ponca tends to grow large new canes 3/4 inch diameter but only 4 to 6 feet tall. Caddo by comparison grows large canes that get up to 12 feet tall. I would top the Caddo plants at 5 feet to keep them manageable. Ponca does not require topping, at least, so far.
I don’t know yet how Ponca will behave when root cuttings are used to propagate. Caddo produces an abundance of new plants making propagation very easy. I found this out when I relocated 2 Caddo plants in 2020. The cut roots from 2 plants produced about 50 new plants the next year. I hope Ponca is as easy to propagate.
I got a few crossed seed from the very early maturing wild blackberry when used on Caddo blooms. Bloom overlap was about 10% meaning the early wild plant bloomed 2 to 3 weeks before Caddo but there were enough late blooms to pollinate the earliest blooms on Caddo. I have a few hundred seed stratifying in the refrigerator. With a bit of luck, I’ll have a few plants to trial next year.
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We know ponca are small to medium berries but many say the flavor is very good. Freedom is a much larger berry but unless you have blazing 100 degree weather like we do in Kansas dont expect the University of Arkansas berries to have the flavor of an old heirloom blackberry. Even in this heat the Arkansas berries are good but not fantastic. So if berries are small or not as tasty you might ask why grow them and there are many reasons why they are still winners. Freedom and ponca are thornless. Prime ark 45 have thorns. Freedom produces less than 45 on my property but freedom is doing fine. My old thorny heirloom blackberry beats them for flavor hands down and it grows more aggressively than anything ive seen. Im not growing ponca at this time but it has lots going for it and many people are growing it. Ponca is not a primocane like freedom, traveler, 45 and others Arkansas is known for.
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I’ve got higher temperatures and a longer season. Flavor in blackberries is strongly genetic meaning growing conditions don’t have as much impact on flavor as the genetics. It is a lot like growing tomatoes. You can grow bland cardboard hybrids like are sold in stores or you can grow old fashioned good flavored tomatoes of heirloom varieties.
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I only have 5 Ponca plants and i started them last year from plugs. 2 of them are throwing up suckers about 6 inches from the crown… so usually when they throw up suckers easy… the roots are prime to grow from cuttings.
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I have 6 of yours in a row ‘trying’ to civilize them… lol. My goodness Healthyberry is like the T-Rex of all my blackberries. I think i will have my hands full keeping it between the wires… She is so aggressive and her thorns are so nasty… her berries must be sweet. Amazing plant to grow… she deserves respect.
I am growing out 5 varieties that i got from Ukraine before all this mess happened. They (had) a really good breeding program there and i luckily got some of them from a good friend. One in particular is going to be a handful. It has maybe 2X the vigor of triple crown. Time will tell. The others have much promise as well. Also got a purple rasp and a red rasp and a hybrid rasp/black from them.
Final thought is that i am also trying out Prime Ark Horizon. I havent seen anyone post anything about it… Its the newest primocane fruiting one they have released… and its thorny. Also trying Black Gem…another primocane variety from U of Ark but licensed to Stark…it is supposed to be erect and thornless.
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I know what you mean it takes good genetics to grow good blackberries which is true. Im saying weather does still impact flavor. We grow tomatoes much better in Kansas as well than colder climates. The flavor is good but the skin gets the texture of paper. If your not convinced taste the difference. In colder areas fruit does not taste the same. Cold also impacts flavor of fruit. If i could have blazing hot days and crisp cold nights than my fruit would always be incredible. The longer you grow fruit the more you can taste the difference in your own crop on cold or warm years. The cold without heat makes blackberries more sour. As an example try red delicious its got a great flavor in Kansas but not in colder climates. I know you believe genetics is the only factor but given enough years you might change your mind.
You are growing a blackberry we keep in the middle of nowhere as much as possible. Its highly aggressive its best tricks you havent seen yet. It can stay partially green much of the winter and it will continue to gain an edge. In the spring it will send out longer runners. As you attempt to control it its adapting to what your doing. At first you will believe it can be controlled but i think it will change your mind very soon. There is no other blackberry like healthberries. They are always going to be the healthiest berry in the patch. Ive only adapted those berries to grow in Kansas but they were not my creation. My grandfather grew them before me and you know he purchased them from a blackberry nursery. There are other fruits that were something i created. The healthberry your growing will propagate by seed or runner. The seeds are genetically different everytime. You might wind up with a hybrid of what your growing. Grow them as far away from everything as you can.
Please let me know on horizon im interested in that one i like 45s alot.
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Far from it. The best genetics available will still fail when growing conditions are wrong. BUT! You can’t start with lousy genetics and grow good flavored fruit. I won’t complain about the flavor of Ponca, it is acceptable. It is nowhere near as good as the tart flavor of the wild blackberries.
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If you like some sour blackberries better you may be a pie man. We also pick a few partially ripe ones in there for a pie or cobbler. For fresh berries i like them juicy and sweet i leave them until the very last second.
I’m personally more interested in blackberry jelly and blackberry juice. I don’t like the seed. Both jelly and juice are sweetened which makes the berry sweetness at harvest a less important concern. I still go out and eat berries fresh off the plants, but that is not my primary interest.
Here is a little known piece of trivia. Blackberry juice is better for settling an upset stomach than any other drink I’ve tried. We were often told that Sprite was a good drink for upset stomach. Blackberry juice is far better.
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The aspirin like qualities in the berry are a great pain and inflammation reducer. People would make a tea out of the stems but ive never seen it done in modern times. Never considered it soothing the stomach but i have considered them a super fruit so it makes sense. Ask The Pharmacist: 36 foods that contain aspirin
" Ask The Pharmacist: 36 foods that contain aspirin
Suzy Cohen
Columnist
Ingredients similar to aspirin were extracted from meadowsweet and willow bark centuries ago, but in 1899, salicin was altered into a patentable drug called aspirin.
Aspirin was approved for the treatment of gout and rheumatic fever, but today we know it as an anti-clotting agent and pain reliever. Around 100 billion aspirin tablets are produced every year.
Aspirin is a “salicylate” compound and millions of people are unknowingly allergic to salicylates, mainly because the foods that it occurs in naturally are not very similar. For example, broccoli, olives, cola, breath mints, pistachios, mushrooms and coffee have nothing obvious in common, so you’d never trace a salicylate allergy to these foods. Yet hey all contain salicylates, similar to aspirin. So if you’re reactive to any of those foods, it’s a clue you might have a salicylate allergy.
Salicylate are found in dozens of foods that aren’t similar. Symptoms that may occur include headaches, asthma, wheezing, nausea, diarrhea, stomach upset, itching, rash, swelling of your hands, feet, or your face or sinus symptoms. Your throat may get itchy, painful or swollen, or your lips may swell. If you experience these or other symptoms, it could very well be the ‘aspirin’ in your food, termed a salicylate allergy.
People who know they are allergic to aspirin know to avoid other over-the-counter medications which may contain aspirin such as cold or flu remedies, antacids, menstrual cycle pain-relievers, certain fizzy antacids, teething gel, or toothache remedies.
Some of you who are allergic to aspirin can actually eat some salicylate-rich foods without a problem. And then there’s a subset of people (maybe you) who eat foods and suffer, and don’t know why. And finally, there are some of you who need the benefits of aspirin, and want to eat salicylates through natural sources. So the following list of foods high in salicylate will serve a different purpose for all of you, depending on what category you fall into.
Natural aspirin is found in the following (note, fruits and vegetables are higher in salicylates when not fully ripe): apples, apricots, avocados, blackberries, blueberries, broccoli, cantaloupe, cauliflower, cherries, chili peppers, cucumbers, currants, dates, dried herbs/spices, eggplant, figs, grapefruit, grapes, green peppers, guava, kiwi, licorice herb (candy is okay), meadowsweet, mint (gum, breath mints, toothpaste), nuts (all of them, pistachios, pine nuts, almonds, etc.), paprika, peaches, plums, prunes, radishes, raspberries, spinach, strawberries, turmeric, wine and zucchini.
You might be wondering why a handful of you can eat salicylate-rich foods when you are allergic to aspirin. It’s because aspirin contains an “acetyl” molecule on the compound because that acetyl group was attached to it in order to turn the natural herb into a drug. Naturally-occurring salicylates do not have this acetyl group and that’s what usually triggers the reaction."
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