I finally caved in and bought surround last fall. When is it first applied and how often? I hope the answers help many.
I go by Scott’s low impact spray schedule. I applied some last night to those fruits that have dropped their pedals. I mixed it with Spinosad, Sulfur, Dawn soap, and a little sticker.
I have used surround for three years now with what I assume are good results because I never grew tree fruit without it. My goal is not to make the little fruits, leafs, or branches completely white, but to have a little bit on as much surface area as I can. The insects (moths, curculio, others I guess) get some Surround on them and don’t like it so spend all their time trying to clean themselves off or find somewhere else to go. I had zero noticeable curculio bites on any fruit last year while my neighbor across the street, who does nothing to his old Gala apple, lost every single apple.
Looking back on my notes, I sprayed weekly for one month starting at pedal drop. I think you want to maintain a coating, so if it rains a lot, reapply.
It seems difficult to cover the fruit when they are very little because the spray seems to just drip off, but I guess on a microscopic level it is enough to bother the insects.
What is the best ratio of water to surround to nu-film sticker? For a two gallon tank.
I try to spray as often as possible. Two times a week or more if it rains. My most often mix is 1-2 cups of surround per one gallon of water. Dawn is added but I don’t measure. I just squeeze some in. Sometimes I use surround/neem/dawn spray on my trunks. Not sure but I think it prevent borers on the trunk and root area.
I start with 3 cups per gallon the first spray and 2 or so cups per gallon after that. Don’t use nufilm with Surround, you want it to flake off on the bugs and a sticker can defeat that.
Disclaimer: everything I know about low impact spray and Surround spray, I’ve learned it from @scottfsmith.
I use a max amount of 3 cups per gallon of water. The biggest issue is whether or not it will clog your sprayer. To avoid clogging, I use a clean bucket, fill it with amount of water need, add Surround, stir thoroughly and add a few drop of Dawn liquid soap. A sprayer need to have a strainer. Pour the mixture through the strainer. It is ready to go.
You can mix other stuff in there (Spinosad, sulfur, Indar, etc) except for sticker. Do NOT add sticker of any kind. It will make Surround stick to the skin of the fruit for a long time (in my case, forever).
In our area, it rains so much. I practically spray weekly but I don’t mind. Surround alone is quite safe.
Thanks all! Off to buy Dawn!!!
The first year I used Surround it was a total failure. I think part of the problem is people answering my questions did not have actual experience. So I went to regular chemicals. Last year I tried it again and had good success with Surround. I “painted” the fruit and foliage for 12" away from fruit in all directions. I hit tops and bottom and for the left and right. Basically made my trees grey in color. But this heavy of treatment (I think it was this) caused some fungal spots on many apples. There are other things to sometimes use along with it, But from Scotts post that people refer to, it is hard to glean certain important bits of info like when to add what to your mix. There are a couple things that should not be used together. So I didn’t use anything else. I am moving this year, so will do regular chemicals to make the trees look best.
I agree that it’s a learning process re. using Surround.
Surround has no kick-back ability. It is a protectant product. It’ll protect well if I spray it at the right time and often. It’s easier said than done as my work schedule, uncooperative weather, etc. interfere with my spraying plan.
You are right about what other things can be put in with Surround. Although almost other chemicals can be mixed in except for sticker, I am careful about what fruit trees I will spray the mixture on particularly apricots. Apricot does not do well with sulfur.
If I spray apricot trees with Surround, I do not add sulfur. But then, I want to use sulfur for apple scab or pear blister mites. So, a different batch of Surround with sulfur is needed. It can be time consuming.
When I choose to grow fruit using a low impact spray schedule, I lower my expectation about getting perfect looking fruit. I try to tell myself that look is only skin deep
I ordered a 25lb bag of Surround from Peaceful Valley for $40, shipping was only $15, supposed to be here early next week. I already have some Bonide spinosad concentrate (dead bug brew), so I hope to get out there next week and start. So, I’m reading this thread with great interest.
My wild plum has finished blooming, and had a bug issue last year (maybe curculio?), so I want to prevent that this year, so I guess I’ll need to do a Surround/Spinosad spray first when the petals are all off the tree? Would 2 cups of Surround and 2 Tbsp of Spinosad in a gallon of water be the preferred recipe?
I also have some pears setting a few fruit, and we might get a few apples to set as well, so would this same recipe work? This will be the first time I’ve ever sprayed for fruit. Thanks.
Also, what is the purpose of adding a bit of dish soap in the mix? If it’s not for its stickiness, then what does it do? Does it help keep the recipe in solution better?
I have never used Surround but the trees of commercial orchards I have seen where it has been used look almost like the trees have been sprayed with white paint from a distance.
I have never used it because I’m afraid my PYO customers would not understand the residue is organic clay and not chemical. My suspicions were confirmed when I saw a lot of customer complaints on a Facebook page for another grower who was using it.
Its a great product from what I understand and its often used in commercial orchards for controlling sunburn as well as insects. No other inexpensive alternative for sunburn exists as far as I know.
@scottfsmith and @mamuang where do you buy your surround (for PC) and sulfur / serenade (for rot)? I know you posted this before but I can’t seem to find the vendors you use. Need to order some.
Scott says 7 Springs ( http://www.7springsfarm.com ) has a good selection of materials. I just bought a 25lb bag of Surround for $40 with $15 shipping from Peaceful Valley: https://www.groworganic.com/surround-25-lb.html .
Soap helps with lubrication.
At the end of spraying, I also add soap to rinse of a sprayer tank when I add oil or Nufilm, too.
Yes, Scott mentioned 7 springs. I bought from it and from other sources even from Schlabach nursery. Prices are similar.
What if you spray copper or Kocide with a sticker first, then spray Surround? Bad or killing two bugs with one spray. LOL
You could probably skip the dish soap but I add a little. Seems to help keep keep the nozzle from clogging and cleanup is easier. Aphids don’t like the soap.
By the time I spray Surround (after petal fall), I have no need for copper. But I do spray myclo with sticker (hope it helps with rain fast) followed by Surround with Spinosad.
This spring I am using Tri-Tek oil with Surround, its an unusual oil more like a paste before you put it in the tank. It acts as a good spreader, probably not as good as the soap but good enough for me. The oil is mainly to smother OFM/CM eggs and I am making sure peach shoot tips get hit so they will oil / spinosad / Surround any eggs there. I also include disease control in the same tank as well as spinosad. Heres a few random tips on Surround which I probably posted before somewhere.
- Hit from all sides as someone mentioned above. I once saw the curc moving upside-down on a branch I sprayed only the top on. Oops.
- Start right after petal fall. If the petal fall times are varying just hit what has dropped petals, don’t wait till all to drop or your curcs will be having a party on the early stuff.
- Base re-application on what the current coat looks like. A little rain often does little, but an inch of rain will wash most off.
- In spring a week of growth can cause a lot more fruit to be exposed, especially with shuck drop, so also monitor how covered the fruits are rain or no.
- Remember the curc likes warm nights. Don’t let the trees sit barren on a warm night!
- You don’t have to make the tree all white but you need a good number of specks on all surfaces of the tree.
- Hit nectarines extra hard, the curc loves 'em!
Thanks for all of the info Scott!!!