When’s a good time to do neem I got flowers still up
Thanks. My Alkmene, Pristine and Zestar are the only trees with almost complete petal fall. The peach buds that I do have look like they’re about in shuck split, so they’ll need to be sprayed too.
I’m trying to figure out which buds look viable. Some of the petals have a crusty brown appearance, which may be that they’re drying up and about to fall off. I can see very small fruitlets underneath. So, I guess they’re okay. Some have brown centers which I know are dead. I guess it doesn’t matter what state they’re in when I spray any of them, if they are bad, they’ll eventually fall.
For first spray, it should be 3 cups to gallon of water? Last time I mixed them in a bucket then transferred the solution to the sprayer.
It’s supposed to be in the 30s the next few nights. Will that deter the curcs? We have had a few nights in the 50s, tho.
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Right, 3 cups per gallon. My mixing method is to put it all in the backpack sprayer, then take the hose head and drag it all around the bottom of the sprayer while it is filling up. That plus some sloshing side to side and it is easy to get into solution.
I have only found one feeding bite in all my inspections for curcs… I think it has been too cold for them to do much so far. I really don’t feel a strong need to spray yet, but there is not a lot of rain in the long-range forecast so I am getting down base coats.
I figured out one new thing this year, the little screen filter in my spray tip was clogging on very small clumps in the mix. This time I decided to try without the filter since it was causing me so much annoyance. Well, everything went fine! I may need to take the whole tip apart more often to clean, but it is a lot better than having to clean the filter a dozen times while spraying.
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Got the sprayer out for the first time this year today. I made my Surround slurry (3 cups in 1 gallon of water), stirred it up and put in the sprayer. I thought that much solution would’ve been enough for what I wanted to do, but I ended up making another half gallon solution.
A lot of it went onto my Juliet cherry, it has dozens of fruitlets already, and I wanted to get those covered. I had read that PC will go after those bush cherries. I then hit my Alkmene, Zestar and most of the Suncrisp and Cortland apples in the lower orchard.
I went up to the upper orchard and got my Pristine apple mostly done, but it had so many fruitlets, I did run out. So, I made more solution and finished it, then my two peaches (Coralstar and Redhaven) which didn’t have much on them. Then after hitting the Grimes Golden and Roxbury Russet, I was done.
Afterwards, I checked the cherry bush and some of the apples and they had a nice white haze on them. Now, I just hope I don’t have to spray again too soon, but we are forecast to have off and on showers over the next week. So, I may have to reapply.
Will a shower wash the dried solution off, or will it take a heavy rain to do that? Also, say we don’t get any rain, how often do I need to reapply? And, does the coverage get more thorough with successive sprays? That is, will the trees get whiter?
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My gauge for when there is enough rain to re-coat is one inch. If it is just sprinkling you won’t lose a lot. But by the time an inch of rain has come down it will mostly be gone.
The trees do get whiter with successive sprays. It can be a good idea to load up with several sprays at first for this reason. What I usually do is start a bit earlier than needed with the spraying so I then have several coats on by the time the curc is fully active.
It has been so cold here that I am taking it easy this spring. I will put another coat on this weekend.
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Looked at the trees today, they have that ghost-y white appearance. For the most part the fruitlets look pretty much covered, some better than others. The cherries didn’t get as good coverage as the apples, I guess because cherries have a smoother skin. So, I hope the branch coverage will help be a deterrent. Hope the rain isn’t going to be too heavy over the next few days.
This is the first time that I’m using surround. It does not clog my sprayer, however I have big problems with surface tension. Maybe it’s because they had sprayed horticultural oil using the same sprayer in the past and rinsed it but perhaps not well enough and some oily residue may be present within the spray or tube or even the sprayer bottle. I did rinse it with extra soapy water a couple of times before using it with surround. What happens is they surround liquid which looks like milk beads into small beads just likeRain on a freshly waxed car. After it dries it still leaves and painted areas between the beds. I worry that car Curculio will hit those
What do you guys use to help distribute surround uniformly?
I should add that I did squirt several drops of dishwashing liquid into the sprayer, but it did not seem to help much
What is the secret to get Surround to cover (stay on) plums and nects? It seems to just slide off. The peaches hold the coating well due to all the fuzz.
For me, getting the spray as a very fine mist seems to stick the best. You will probably need to let it dry and go over it a couple times.
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It doesn’t coat shiny fruit well. But the main goal is not to stop them from harming the fruit once they are there, it is to stop them getting to the fruit to begin with . 95% of the time they are walking on the limbs to do that… great fruit coverage is not required. Just make sure you get both sides of all limbs or the curc will just walk along the side you missed.
That said, I am now adding a bit of insecticidal soap to the tank to help break the surface tension, something like 1tsp in my 5-gallon sprayer. I get a little more coverage on the shiny fruits that way.
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Could you give me an example of an insecticidal soap that would work for this indication ?
They are all the same. I have bought many brands over the years and always the same look, the same smell, etc. I sometimes wonder if there is only one supplier making truckloads of the stuff which everyone else is just repackaging.
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Sprayed my trees again last night to give them another coating of Surround. Early this morning we had a brief downpour of about 10 minutes, and afterwards it appeared that it didn’t really affect the coverage much.
BUT, this evening about 6pm we had about a half hour storm with very heavy rain, and it just about washed off all of the Surround. AARRGH, I can’t stand this weather. I’ll have to spray again tomorrow, that’ll be 3 times in less than a week. Hope all that clay isn’t hurting my trees. Hope the PC aren’t hitting my trees tonight…
I’m really trying to protect my fruit, but it’s already getting to be a pain. Thankfully it just takes only about a gallon and a half of solution to cover what I need, but I only have a gallon sprayer, so that means two trips back to the shed to reload. I need a bigger sprayer. 
This is the first year I am getting cherries, would it be a smart choice to apply surround to my crop, it’s only one bush I need to spray and not a crazy amount of fruit? Is surround an organic spray?
Yes, it’s an inert milled clay. You try to suspend it in water by stirring it while spraying it. I am of the controversial opinion that you don’t use a sticker/spreader in the mix because you want it to come off the fruit and stick to the bugs that land in the tree. They hate that and will spend a lot of time and effort trying to clean themselves rather than attacking the fruit. The dust camouflages the fruit, too, so the bugs don’t recognize it as food so easily. It’s great stuff. It’s white and reflects some sunlight, so it may even cool the orchard slightly. The trouble with Surround® is that you have to buy it in heavy quantities.
Alright so it comes right off the fruit right?
When washed before eating
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This is from the Surround® label:
Pre-harvest intervals (PHI): Surround WP may be applied up to the day of harvest. For fresh market crops that will not be washed or for field packed crops where a residual white film is not desired, make applications early-season only. White residue at harvest may be minimized if applications to smooth skin crops like apples stop when the fruit is approximately 1/4 of its expected size.
PACKING AND PROCESSING: Washing is required unless only early season applications are made and the film weathers off before harvest. Most residues wash off with packing line brushing and forced water sprays. An approved washing detergent is typically helpful if used in the packing line and/or wash tank. Perform a pre-harvest washing trial to determine if a washing detergent is necessary. Waxing further improves fruit appearance.
For fresh market apples that will not be waxed, such as apples for organic markets or specific export markets that DO NOT accept waxed apples or for washed crops where traces of white residue are not acceptable: Unless washing facilities are adequate, cease applications enough in advance of harvest to allow residue to weather off completely. For ‘Red Delicious’ and ‘Braeburn’ apple varieties, DO NOT apply any later than two months prior to harvest.
Pome fruits such as apple, crabapple, quince, pear, and loquat
For fresh market apples and pears that will not be waxed, such as fruit for organic markets or specific export markets that DO NOT accept waxed fruit: It is best that Surround WP not be applied any later than two months prior to harvest as slight traces of white sometimes can still be visible after washing. This especially applies to ‘Red Delicious’ and ‘Braeburn’ cultivars.
Stone fruit such as apricot, sweet or tart cherries, nectarine, peach, plum, pluot, plumcot1, and prune
Special Washing Considerations for Stone fruit: For fresh market fruit, special washing is required; especially for fuzzy peaches. Most residues wash off with brushing and forced water sprays. An approved fruit cleaning detergent can be used in packing line and/or wash tank. Prior to brushing, a pre-soak in approved fruit cleaning detergent is usually needed for fuzzy peaches. A pre-harvest washing trial is a good practice to determine if a detergent is necessary. Waxing further improves fruit appearance. If fresh market stone fruit cannot be washed as noted above, discontinue sprays when the fruit are approximately 3/4 inch in diameter. Residues of Surround WP crop protectant DO NOT affect processed fruit quality. If cherries are for fresh market, discontinue application when fruit are half size (approximately 1/4 inch) if no washing is available.
Berries such as blackberry, raspberry, dewberry, boysenberry, loganberry, elderberry, blueberry, ribes such as currant and gooseberry, and including cranberry
Apply on fresh market berries only up to the first three weeks after fruit set as trace residues can be difficult to remove after harvest. Application of plain water via normal sprayer prior to harvest can help to reduce Surround WP residues. Processing blueberries can be washed using detergent and water sprayers capable of rinsing away residues in the packing line. Minor residues of Surround WP on blueberries for processing are acceptable provided no other pesticides are also present.
Grapes
DO NOT spray table grapes from first bloom to harvest as white residue can remain on the rachis and fruit until harvest. Infestations can be sprayed up to first bloom, and again after harvest.
Legume Vegetables such as beans, pea, chickpeas, and soybean
Only spray beans that are difficult to wash, such as string beans, when beans are small. DO NOT apply to other field and garden vegetables if they are intended for the fresh market and cannot be adequately washed after harvest to completely remove Surround WP residues. Minor residues of Surround WP on field and garden vegetables for processing are acceptable provided no other pesticides are also present.
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I think most folks on here who use Surround don’t use sticker with it, mostly because it makes really difficult to remove it later.
They do mix it with other pesticides, like spinosad. I have that but haven’t used it yet. I’m trying to keep the curculio’s off my fruit first, and spinosad supposedly doesn’t work on PC (according to @scottfsmith ).
Too bad it doesn’t deter squirrels…
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