Fire Blight really wrecked my young G.214 grafts. Only 8 0f 50 are left.
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I have grafted all of my trees on G890 the last 5 years. I am happy so far. They are all free standing without support.
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I too wanted dwarf sized trees, and if possible free-standing. Those things are usually mutually exclusive unless one of the more semi dwarf rootstocks are used.
Perhaps Iâm just a glutton for punishment but my solution was double-grafting, interstem. I take MM111 and cut it very close to the roots, grafting on about a one foot section of G41, on top of which goes the scion of the desired cultivar.
This grows in a pot from that spring until fall (only the MM111 portion buried) when I plant it out in my home orchard. I then bury about half of the G41 interstem portion so that it can form roots close to the soil surface, while the MM111 part hopefully provides a firm anchoring.
Most do require some staking, at least for a few years. I have an ample supply of bamboo so thatâs what I usually use. Sometimes to my detriment, I had my first breakage this year. There were 3 pieces of bamboo in a tripod arrangement loosely attached to a tree and for some reason they fell over dragging the tree with them, snapped it at the surface. Not at either of the grafts, the above ground graft still looks good and whatâs below ground I assume is as well. Itâs sending up a sucker alreadyâŚ
Having read about some of the graft union failures with G41, and since I prefer W&T anyway, theyâre all done that way. So far so goodâŚ
A couple of other trees have had âbamboo malfunctionsâ and were laying flat on the ground when I discovered them. Even with the G41 section at a hard right angle, none of the others have broken at least. Propped them back up and they so far seem to be happyâŚ
First trees like this grafted Spring of 2020 and planted out that fall. Have 50 or so now, first successful fruiting this year. Deer pruning and sunlight challenges didnât allow any to fruit last year or earlier.
Ginger Gold fruited on an MM111/G41 interstem and they were fantastic and fairly large. Fearing they may break the limb I did prop up the fruiting limbs with pieces of bamboo. That tree itself no longer has anything for the main part of the tree though, itâs free-standing.
FWIW my area is fairly protected from winds. Many of those G41 failures seem to have been in extreme wind events. Fingers crossed for nothing like that happening here!
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WOW! Thatâs a heck of a % loss.
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Point bud grafts into the wind to reduce breakage.
I think this is only a âproblemâ on a g.41 because thatâs the primary rootstock commercial growers are planting. Drive through the Yakima valley around Prosser and thatâs basically the only new rootstock they are using. If they were using g.935 (which they wonât because of the Boogie Man Virus g.935 problem) they you would see claims that g.935 has a weak graft union problem.
They are all pruned and trained the same way. G-11 seems to be the least vigorous and the weakest among the three, and as a matter of fact, I checked on it today and found it leaning a bit. The B9 looks unexpectedly sturdy, and vigorous.
I thin my apples ~6â apart, which is insufficient, specially for productive trees. Next year, I will probably thin them 8-10â apart.
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Many times I wonder if the viral issues are when large producers donât sanitize equipment thoroughly/attempt multiple grafts that fail leading to infection. I absolutely donât have authority to speak on this issue but I wonder if thatâs where the âviral boogeymanâ comes from?
Because of you and others on this forum, I just discovered Interstem grafting was a thing lol! I have put new grafts in the ground in rows vs in pots and to my surprise I got more growth out of the potted new benchgraftsâŚplant in fall. So far, this seems to work well for me. I think itâs because itâs closer to my backyard and the footsteps of a gardener/farmer are the best fertilizer (as they say). Plus itâs hard to keep grass away from fresh grafts without sprayingâŚthen thereâs the remembering to spray the area thing. If I had to upscale I would go in ground but I totally agree in pots seems to be the way to go for getting a fresh tree going.
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@ribs1 The more I talk with all yâall, the more I like G890 and the similar semi-dwarfing Genevas.
@toad I love their vids too! Thank you for your feedback, So I take it that G214s would handle a bud graft union better than G41s? Seems to me that G214 is kind of the better of the two in that regard. The more I have gotten into grafting the more I like using bud grafts because life is busy and whip and toungue in spring can be a bit more time consuming but I guess itâs up to oneâs preferences there.
@boylan This is sound advice and very logical. Thank you, this year I have expiermineted with an old already popped bicycle inner tube with a zip time over that to train branches. Perhaps I can upscale this method in making a U around the tree to support it like you say
I could see that.
The supposed g.935 virus problems have never been tied to any specific virus - all the information is anecdotal.
I think the g.41 bud graft union issue is the same way - whatâs the failure rate? How does this compare to g.11 which is another rootstock popular with commercial growers? I bet itâs not that different. I bought two Kudos trees on g.41 from commercial grower this year and heâs got 1000s of trees on g.41. Didnât sound like heâd had any problems with g.41 although he was well aware of the âissueâ and advised me to point the graft into the prevailing wind just in case.
Whip and tongue is incredibly robust both in terms of healing and matching up the graft but itâs slow.
I like g.890 as well. Iâve only got two trees on g.890 but they have grown with a vengeance.
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Iâm likely going to G.935 over G.214 next year. G.214 never gave graft issues for me. Still and all I have 8 G.214 to dedicate to stooling this year. So It will still be in the collection.
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I think the last apple tree I bought was in 1998. Most of the remaining apples here are on M26, are at the top of the slope, and exposed to wind⌠never needed staking/trellising, but numerous trees on M9/M111 leaned 45 degrees or more, requiring me to jack them back upright and prop with concrete blocks, big chunks of Osage Orange, etc. Two of the M26 sucker fairly profusely, so I just tear out suckers, pot them up, and graft onto them for outplanting.
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I have six ( 6) EMLA 9/M111 trees and none of mine are leaning. I REALLY like the EMLA9/M111 height and also the amount of fruit I get all this rootstock combination. I wish all my apple trees were on the EMLA9/M111 rootstock combination.
I usually get that leaning thing from a M7 rootstock. All my M7âs are leaning. I have one I had to stake up because it would fall over so often I thought it was going to die.
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@MikeC How long did it take your M111s to bear fruit? Some sources say it is a little delayed, some say itâs quick. Also when you say EMLA9/M111 do you mean this is an interstem graft I take it?
Yes, it is an interstem. The M111 is the rootstock and the EMLA 9 is the interstem piece that the actual apple graft is grafted to. I am not sure why it is listed in that order- to me it would be the opposite- EMLA 9 being the rootstock and M111 being the interstem part- not the case.
It sometimes varies as to how long before you get fruit. What I have had experienced is I had fruit in as little as two years ( this year actually) and then the next soonest was 3 years but mainly a 3 to 4 years IF it is not a frost/freeze to kills the blossoms.
Weird. Just another illustration of varying performance on different sites.
Still have 3 or 4 trees on M7 that are upright and have never leaned, but Iâve totally removed all of those on M111/M9. Most were mot appropriate selections for my locale or my (no) management style.
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I have avoided M9 and itâs clones like the plague. Good but high maintenance is all I read. I have read Nic-29 has the best rooting of all of the variations.
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@MikeC Thank you for clarifying. Thatâs fascinating you get fruit that fast on that kind of rootstock system. This year in the Omaha, NE area a late frost that came in real late took out a ton of cherry and crabapple blossoms. I would be canning crabapple jelly around now if it werenât so. LOL
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