Ok family, I have a situation here. I have a friend who has a working farm. Previously I gave him seedlings of some of my varieties, just as a gift. This year, he actually sold some of the fruit from my home trees at the market and they sold pretty well. He had Previously said that I could use some of his property to grow fruit trees if I wanted. Most of my fruit trees are in the front of my house due to sunlight issues, and this year the fruit thieves took quite a bit.
I am considering buying some fruit trees and putting them on his farm so I can trial new varieties and have some guaranteed fruit in case the thieves get worse.
Now these aren’t a large amount, maybe 5-10 trees a year I’m thinking. Basically my gardening allowance, not retirement money or life’s savings.
I’m thinking about putting something in writing, maybe a statement that I have rights to 5 or 10% of the harvest if I want. I’m also thinking about propagation rights if a variety is really good or if he sells the property. I’ve known this person for over a decade, even before he bought the farm, so he’s not a stranger.
Do you think the agreement is a good idea? It is his land, and I don’t mind him getting the bulk of the harvest right now since I do want him to succeed. Or should I scrap this idea and run away? I do get the advantage of more land to trial things, since I’ve maxed out my residential lot…
I can see the potential risks, but I think it might work for you if you are willing to graciously accept the possibility of doing a lot of work and ending up with nothing, as well as possibility of losing a friend.
I question whether a written agreement would help. To me it sounds like one of those situations where if you need an agreement you probably should steer clear. He stands to lose the use of his land and so on, too.
Decades ago my father went into the chicken raising business with a friend who owned a property that happened to have a chicken barn on it. I don’t recall who paid for the birds and feed, but Dad contributed a ton of hard work, along with my big sister who was in on it for her “college fund”. That year chronic respiratory disease hit northwest Arkansas and devastated growers. Dad didn’t make anything, and neither did the friend. (But we did remain friends with the family!)
I think a written agreement would put a strain on you relationship. Even 10 trees on someone else’s land is pushing things, in my opinion. Just be thankful for the opportunity and let it go at that.
I am planting, pruning, and maintaining these as well.
I always thought of it as a donation of time and money. Maybe I’ll just write it off on my taxes and leave it be. Hopefully I will be able to get budwood out if worst case, he sells or passes away.
Kind of like, don’t lend money to friends and family that you need back…
He is selling these and keeping most of the money as well, so it is a win-win, at least on the small scale that we have now…
Im with mark and northwoods. Dont put so much that you need a written agreement, and be ready to graciously let it go and keep your friends if something comes up. A witten agreement would cost him a lot too since it could encumber his land, so that could stress him. Whereas a friendship share deal has potential to work great for all. As long as you are willing to let it go if need be then even if you lost it you could look at it as fun while it lasted and also the fact that you tried is worth something, as well as the thing of johnny appleseeding good fruit in the area is worth some points.
I hope the best!
I agree with others where I say prepare to just let it go if anything happens. At the end of the day it would be his land and if anything did come up with a written agreement it would have to go to court. Most people don’t have the money or time for lawyers or court. I got a ticket years back and literally spent 5 minutes in the stand for my trial and it cost me over 300 dollars.
Leasing the land could be an option, with an agreement that your friend will be able to harvest the fruit on that plot during your lease period. Otherwise I agree it’s best to keep friendly terms and accept your potential losses.
Have you looked into just purchasing another small plot for your trees? I am seriously considering this for myself. Land is usually a good long term investment, especially if you leave it better than you found it.
I looked for two years for an inexpensive piece of land for growing a few things. Finally a 7-acre piece, partly in flood plain, but well-suited for my purposes, came up on foreclosure. It keeps me so busy I haven’t time to get in trouble in my retirement.
I am wondering if a floodplain or a hillside would be a cheaper option near me. Generally something that’s not able to be developed easily is the key.
Although this isn´t really a business you´re planning with your friend, I would avoid it like the plague. Twice I tried to start a small hobby business with friends. One was a fruit orchard for a farmers’ market, another was a goat dairy. Both were failures where I barely escaped with the friendships intact. There are always a million tiny decisions to be made – and you´ll be surprised how you´ll disagree with your friend on each one of them. Follow Northwoodswis4 advise and find a scrap of land (as close by as possible) and use that as an orchard hobby outlet.
I wish you luck with planting fruits on someone else’s land. My yard is small (in the city) so planted most of my fruit trees on my bother in laws farm. We had a verbal agreement on this. Worked well for 10-12 years then went south. The deal was I would care for the trees (pruning, spraying ect) and we would split the fruit. He got 70% of the fruit but would give me a free pig each fall. Worked for me as it gave me enough fruit for my needs plus meat too.
At first all was well. Then I would go to harvest pears and find the entire crop picked and gone. He did not leave any for me. Happened 4 years in a row. Same thing on certain apple varieties sometimes. Finally the free pig stopped happening too.
With no pig now coming, I asked for some financial help on the costs of the insecticides, herbicides and fungicides this year. Spraying 23 trees plus grapes does cost. I got a Yes on financial help but never saw any money. Crop all harvested now. Found everyone glad to come out when time to harvest but nobody wants to pay for orchard costs nor help with pruning/spraying.
Tough issue since it involves family so I decided not to bring up the matter further. I will no longer be taking care of this orchard so back to just the few apple trees on my city lot.
I hope your “agreement” works out better than mine did. I thought we had a partnership but found out I was just the hired hand who eventually did not even get paid.
Definitely, put an agreement in writing. Any lawyer will tell you that verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are written on. Written agreements prevent future misunderstandings. You might consider the possibility he may sell the property, maybe giving you the right of first refusal (ROFR) (do a search on the term). There is a legal form for such that should be filed with your county courthouse. Your friend should understand your need to protect any investment you make.
As for fruit thieves, I am reminded of one farmer who figured he could deter thieves with a sign that read “ONE OF THESE WATERMELONS IS POISONED”. Unfortunately, the next day he found someone had crossed out the word “ONE” and wrote “TWO”.
I’m not good at sharing, especially with the acreage I own. There’s no way on Earth that I’d enter into such an agreement. Just way too many bad things that could happen IMO
Seems most people are against the written agreement, but I sort of like those. I’ve got one with my best friend in the world that lets him deer hunt on some land my family owns but he has to keep it posted, keep the path free when trees fall, and pay a small amount toward taxes. I trust him with my life and don’t think he’d ever intentionally break our agreement, but without a written one people just forget over time what they promised to do. Not on purpose (sometimes) but they do. Having it in writing can just help keep people honest even if they aren’t trying to break the agreement.
As far as you getting a legal right to have access, that would be different. You’d have to get an easement or common ownership rights and ingress/egress rights, and they’d have to be recorded on the deed which could lower property values because most people wouldn’t want to buy a piece of property that someone else has the right to come and go on to care for a few fruit trees they may not even want.
I’d get an agreement in writing but know in your heart that its just to keep everyone honest and reminded of what the original agreement was. Know and accept in your heart that if he violated the agreement in some way, your written “contract” is almost worthless because it would cost a lot more in attorney fees and court costs and hard feelings than loosing 10-20 trees would.
What does maxing out mean? For me it is a function of keeping enough grass to throw the dog a Frisbee and have room for a swingset. Otherwise I’m planning to grow things and remove most grass. The driveway is big so potted trees will eventually live there too.
I think this is one of the key things to consider with any contract. What do you expect it can actually accomplish for you? For lower value projects, when the legal fees will make any legal action cost more than the likely return, the main 2 things you can gain from an agreement would be some type of liability protection (not sure how that would work in this case) plus a more formalized process upfront to make sure you are both in agreement on the actual terms and expectations. Are either of those worth it in this case to make you take the time and effort to get the agreement in place? That is something you should decide based on your relationship, etc.
So think about the risks, such as him selling the land before you even get the trees to bearing size, him changing his mind and deciding he needs that space for another crop, etc. If you feel you are likely to get enough enjoyment and learning from the process if it goes south or the risk is low that the agreement will go south early, then it may be worth it for you. But it is unlikely a written agreement will change any of those risks, since you are unlikely to find enforcing it worth the legal fees, bad blood, etc.
Written agreements prevent future misunderstandings. You might consider the possibility he may sell the property, maybe giving you the right of first refusal (ROFR) (do a search on the term). There is a legal form for such that should be filed with your county courthouse. Your friend should understand your need to protect any investment you make.