I’ve spent the last few years grafting mostly to G969 with good results for heirlooms and cider apples. I’ve found that the red flesh varieties seem to do very well on it as well as some popular cider varieties such as Porters Perfection, Kingston black, brown snout, Cox’s, and others such as Liberty and goldrush. Golden Russet does really well on it but you must graft it and not bud it as the bud union is ultra weak. Of the 150 golden Russet trees that I ordered on G969 from Wafler nursery, over 100 of them had failed bud unions from wind damage, and this year only 89 of 150 survived. Other varieties have done well as the ones listed above. There’s also been bud union weakness on Dabinett but not as severe as GR. I currently have about 550 trees in my orchard with everything currently on G969 and it’s all currently trellised, with the hope that someday they’ll stand on their own. They’re planted 5’x15’ on a sandy gravelly loam, with drip irrigation. This growing season has seen more weather related damage to the G969. It seems that this rootstock pushes harder than most rootstocks when fed a hearty diet of calcium nitrate of which may be contributing to the weak bud union. My personally grafted trees have had zero issues but I haven’t pushed them as hard either. So, What seemed like it would be the latest and greatest new rootstock of all checking every box has turned out too good to be true. This nursery is done with the G969 and is shifting to the G935 as their Geneva option as they’ve had almost perfect success with similar attributes as the G969. So far my G969’s are doing well atop a windy hill overlooking Lake Ontario. This coming spring I’m planting another 120 trees on G969, more GR’s and Baldwin’s and the balance of another 215 or so on G935. After this my fenced in orchard will be complete with just under 1000 trees and the nursery will be turned into a garden other than the few obscure cultivars that I come across that I can squeeze in which will likely go onto G935 from now on. I also have a wide variety of various heirlooms so feel free to ask if there’s a variety that you want to graft the G969 to as I might have some performance data on it.
Good luck
I agree with you. What they tout as THE latest and greatest rootstock is of questionable at best. I am so glad I did not jump in with both feet with the G series rootstocks for my orchard. I do not have anywhere close to the number of trees that you have. I read and read and read about different rootstocks and thought the G series was THE way to go. I went in a different rootstock direction BUT I did dabble with ordering a few G series rootstocks to try. I am so glad I did that. The G series I chose have done poorly on just about every of them. I have only had one that has grown decently and had any fruit to speak of. This one will stay and the others I am taking out next year. They have been in the ground since 2013. I think I have given them enough time to prove their worth, or lack of it.
I did pick the G 890 to try out on a few trees. I just planted them this year. Time will tell for both of us about what we picked out to try.
I wish you the best of luck with the G series you have chosen to go with.
I don’t want to give the wrong impression. The trees that survived the professional nursery are doing great. They are halfway through their second growing season and many are 10-11 feet tall. The professional nursery absorbed the biggest losses and I was shorted a lot of trees as a result, but it’s worked out because they’ve made I’m up for the lost trees this coming spring and I was able to change some of my order. My issue is that Cornell touted these are free standing trees. In the same sentence they say that support is “recommended” in the first couple years which is the case with almost all apple trees. Then they love to say how disease resistant their rootstocks are which is true but it misleads the majority of folks that interpret this as it passing on some sort of disease resistance to the varietal which we know it doesn’t but most people don’t. I’m hopeful that the bud/graft unions will be strong enough someday to support the tree without wires because I installed them with the intent for early support and to keep them growing straight. Originally I was going to put everything on M26 until I read all the marketing hype about G969 and it seemed superior in every way. The antiques do seem to grow into a beautiful tree on the M26. I have a pretty strict spray regime so the few benefits of the G969 are pretty moot. I just think people should strongly consider M26 instead of G969 or even the G935 if they want a Geneva. The genevas do grow fast.
I started with freestanding trees on G890. I switched over to G969 2 years ago when i decided to put a few hundred trees on trellis. I am spaced 3×12, 4 wire trellis. Im planning on keeping the G969 trellised for their entire run here on the farm.
I have seen relativly few issues with Geneva rootstocks. I have trees on G890, G41 and G969, but also some Bud 9, M26, M7 and a couple on M111. Ive had the most trouble with Bud 9.
Im on heavy soil that is in the Chautauqua Ridge over looking Lake Erie. Im going to add about 200 more trees, and probably will stick with G969. I graft my own trees, and i didnt bud the G969, but i budded the 890 and 41 without graft union issues. Seems like every rootstock out has a list of pros and cons, and everyone needs to figure out which works best for themselves.
G9335 is susceptible to certain latent viruses. You need to use virus free scionwood with it. You might consider looking at G214 which is newer but doesn’t have a problem with latent viruses and has similar vigor. However, I do have Winecrisp on G16 which is also latent virus susceptible. It’s a really nice shaped tree with good branch angles and it almost “trained itself”. But I am real careful cleaning pruning tools with alcohol but before I prune it.
I have trees on B9, G11, G41, G16, G935, G30 and G890 . I really haven’t had problems with them except with Honeycrisp on G30. I lost it earlier this year in the high winds of a “derecho”. It was on the end of the row probably in the most vulnerable spot. But to be fair lots of large trees were lost. In some areas electric power was lost for two weeks due all of the large trees falling on power lines. We were lucky and only lost power for a day.
Something to consider is all rootstocks have disadvantages even the old Malling ones. M7 can lean or runt out in some soil types. Some sources suggest staking M7 for a number of years. M111 is susceptible to tomato ringspot virus and so it goes.
G969 can be self-supporting if trained to a central leader system. It is precious so it may go thru a wobbly period before it is fully self supporting. So it’s best to stake it until it has set a couple of full sized crops. But if you train it to the tall spindle system or vertical axe the tree will never be self-supporting. In these systems you early crop the tree and build fruit instead of building wood that will allow the tree to be free-standing.
Geneva rootstocks all have resistance to fireblight. They increase the survival rates of trees even if the scion is susceptible. If the fireblight gets into the rootstock and the rootstock is susceptible to fireblight it dies and the whole tree dies with it. That’s why commercial orchards use Geneva rootstocks under fireblight susceptible scions like Gala. B9 works differently it somehow makes the scion less susceptible to fireblight. How it works isn’t clear.
M26 is susceptible to fireblight. A local orchard had several hundred trees on M26. Many trees did well but there were quite few leaning trees supported with posts and the Northern Spy trees didn’t do well. Northern Spy is susceptible to fireblight.
Here is a chart that lists the properties of Geneva rootstocks you might find it helpful.
There’s a local grower here that has his cider orchard on M26. He only has 3 varieties: Dabinette, porters perfection, and Yarlington Mill. His trees are full size now and they’re all covered in fireblight. And I don’t have any, but I went a little crazy spraying strep
I have Dabinette on M.111 and it lacks vigor. Porter’s Perfection is doing well on G.210, but G.210 itself was disastrous for me, with a 60% death rate on the rootstock and a high percentage of graft failures as well (grafts that didn’t take). Once established they seem to do well. For the most part I have sandy soil. Rootstocks I’m growing on currently are P.18, B.118, M.111, M.106, G.890, M.7, G.210, G.222 and B.9. I have about 600 trees in the orchard and 50 to move to the orchard from the nursery bed. I have 1-2 remaining rows I’m considering a high-density planting for. I would estimate my 160+ cultivars are 60% eating/cooking and 40% cider varieties. The G series I used were chosen for being free standing, but that hasn’t proven consistently reliable.
Can you share the trouble you experienced with Bud 9?
Our Bud 9 did not grow as big or as fast as expected and we had 1000 Bud 9 trees before we understood that there was nothing we could do to make them grow like we expected.
Also I’m wondering how tight G969 trees are on 3 X12 in your area.
We are removing all our Bud 9 trees and replacing them. So far G11 and G41 look pretty good but we are interested in all options.
There’s a Kellogg hill farms just 9 miles south of me In Hannibal NY, same people?
Im not in Hannibal NY, im in South Dayton NY.
I have had issues with Bud 9 runting out. Cant seem to get them to above 60 inches tall. Very little growth, low production and had all Cox Orange die out on B9. Im slowly replacing them this coming year.
I have a number of trees on G41 that have done well, also on 3x12 spacing. I want a little more vigor, so i went to G969 for the newer plantings.
The 3x12 spacing for G969 is fine so far, we will see in a couple years if i planted them too close. My top wire is at 8’, and i bend the leader over to keep the trees at about 9’. So far the key to growth control has been bending branches down to encourage fruiting rather than growth. I tie branches to keep them down and so far so good. I will say the plantings are young, so not a ton of production yet, but next year they will be in full production i hope.
Any further updates on the Geneva 969?
Yes, the G969 trees has a lot of vigor, probably too much but I wouldn’t use it again due to its brittle bud unions. My trees that were grafted to it whip and tongue seem to be ok but budding is so much more effective it’s hard to go back to grafting. My trees are doing well but I just replaced 31 trees in the last two days from breaking at the bud/graft union. These trees are all on a trellis and they still broke. If I were to do it all over again I would 100% put everything on M26.
I need to learn how to bud graft. Got any good advice?
Many good videos on YouTube, examples below:
Ahmad beat me to it. JSacandura on YouTube has the very best videos for both budding and grafting.
Does this have to be done in the summer or can it work now in spring?