Grafting Persimmons


#1

First time grafting Persimmons. I feel very fortunate as it seems 2 of my 4 grafts have taken. Much conversation here supports the fact that grafting Persimmons can be rather difficult. Hope these last and make it until next spring. One is Fuyu and other is Jiro. Both on American Persimmons root sock. Fingers crossed.


#2

How do you feel certain it is Fuyu?


#3

Ordered from Burnt ridge Hana Fuyu.


#4

I recommend you give Burnt Ridge a serious inquiry as to how they obtained a cutting of this plant, and what their mother plant is grafted on.

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?id=1673617


#5

Hey guys, I’m following the discussions here with great interest because persimmons are not very popular in Romania where I live. Still one of my daughters just love persimmons so I bought Dyospiros kaki last year. After a late frost in April that killed the first one I bought the second one sometime in June. In theory it went well, with lush leaves and decent growth. Still at the beginning of this year the tree looked dry for a good period. Only in August I saw that the kaki is not dead for good with 3 branches very close to the ground, but bellow the grafting point. Anyway the grafting was very, very ugly, I wondered if it can stand a strong wind. Solution is to graft in spring and I managed to find some scions, because I intend to graft all three branches, for diversity and increased chances. I know that I have to graft it in spring and here comes my question how advanced should be the rootstock when I join the scion (the latter should be dormant)? I know that the sap should be circulating but It looks to me that somebody says I have to have already leaves. I intend to make whip grafting. I do hope somebody would share knowledge with me till spring comes.


#6

Hi crazyhorse,

The most important thing is warm temperature. When you see Fahrenheit temperatures at or above 70 degrees for two weeks forecasted that is when you graft. Leaf size is not as important with persimmons. If you must wait until June for these temperatures, then wait. (Celcius 21-22 and warmer)

Of course parafilm or wax over the scion and union.

That is 100% what you need to know.

I do have one question for you and that’s what USDA zone are you:
https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-romania-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php

Dax


#7

Hi Barkslip, thank you very much. I have grafted for the first time this year pear on hawthorn and it worked perfectly. Indeed it was 20 Celsius those days, it means the same should be with persimmon.
As far as USDA zone according to the map, thank you for sharing with me, in theory I should be in 7a, but in reality I guess it is 5b. A couple of years ago there were -25 Celsius for couple of days in a row (late December) and I’m positive it counts. For sure I will protect the young persimmon first years or so.

As I see the persimmon is a bit late in development so no chance of having leaves on that period, isn’t it?

Cheers


#8

I would like you to see swollen buds or leaves on the rootstocks at the time of grafting. I should’ve mentioned that information when I wrote last time.

For you it’s going to be difficult to grow kaki persimmons, possibly. You might consider ‘Nikita’s Gift’ as an alternative. Nikita’s Gift will suffer winter injury at -23/-24 C.

American persimmons are completely different from kaki persimmons but are very delicious too. Check Pépinière du Bosc in France for mail order scions or grafted trees. Remi Collici will be able to tell you what you should grow at your Romania location. It could be that Nikita’s Gift is not a good choice for you.

American persimmon ‘Prok’ is excellent. When it is orange on the tree it is ready for eating and does not have astringency. It is excellent.

Dax


#9

Thank you for the tip concerning swollen buds, that’s exactly what I was looking for. I documented myself a couple of years previously to buying kaki. So the scion would be from a tree 6 years old that has already lots of fruits for the past 2 years, located 20 km away from me. I am in close contact with the owner of that kaki with respect to care for the first years, appreciate the info concerning Pepiniere du Bosc, definitely I will try it.

Regards,

Catalin


#10

Best time to graft persimmon, as Dax says, when the buds are well inflated or first leaves.
Several techniques can be used. Depending on the size of the scionwood and the rootstock.
You know that we are your climate. If there is a risk of frost, wait until the risks have passed.
For persimmon, there are not really any periods for grafting. Here is a gtffe made at August 30 (it’s way too late, but it works.). The problem will be to have viable wood for next year.


#11

The wood may not be harden when Winter arrived. You may try to wrap it up with a layer of foam and several layers of burlap for Winter protection… Use a brace so the branch will not snap with all that protections. In addition, you can remove some of the lower leaves so the wood can harden faster.

Tony


#12

Thank you all, guys, for valuable advises, the picture is much clearer now for me and I am very confident. The 3 new twigs that appeared this year are very close to the ground, therefore the graftings would be close to the ground as well. For sure I plan to protect the kaki for coupe of years in a row, it is way too precious to waste it. By the way, I have bought some blue corn (Hopi indians corn) over Amazon a couple of years ago and I am growing it ever since. The dried corn stalks would be a perfect cover.


#13

Hi Tony,
this photo is just to show that it is better to graft late than to risk a shot of frost.

In the case of presing I force the shoot to hope for 20 cm. After I will extend the vegetation to the maximum in a cold greenhouse. the trees will be frost-free, with the sole objective of keeping 1 bud alive to make wood for next year and keep these varieties. … to graft them correctly the following spring.
It’s risky, but I think safer than keeping grafts 1 more years in the fridge.


#14

Do you know the name of the variety that you will graft?
some varieties grow well in your country.


#15

Arhus, actually I don’t and don’t really care since the scions would come from trees living and producing fruits in my country for a couple of years, very close to my place. I know for sure that the variety I have bought was kaki Vaniglia, known for its cold resistance. At least in theory


#16

I do not know the diameter and size of your rejections, but if it’s too small wait a year more.


#17


Hi, find enclosed the images with the grafting and with the small twigs. Since the pictures were taken (mid august) I shortened all 3 basal branches and cut all lateral ones for the main branches to became stronger. They all have almost 1 cm thickness, I guess it is right for grafting in the spring. Plus I kind not have patience :slight_smile:


#18

So it isn’t my rejection. The tree I have bought didn’t survive the winter, despite the fact that had nice, lush leaves till last autumn. In the spring I thought it is dead and only on early summer I saw some branches popping under the grafting


#19

Your rootstock is a D.lotus. Not all varieties are compatible with (especially non-astringent).
It is compatible with the majority of D. virginiana. A friend recently told me that he does not know any d.virginiana incompatibility on d.lotus.


#20

Respect for you knowing at once the rootstock, I am not skilled at all on this. Strange is that the kaki come in a pot with leaves and flower buds. It has flowered, lived until fall and that was that. Bought from a nursery, anyway now it is history. Valuable though your observation because I just contacted somebody that has several varieties of kaki here in Romania, I would ask him for a scion of virginiana if available.