Yes
Malvasia is a floral wine
similar to the muscat.
I used to see it in the store
but not anymore.
If you consider this possibility I suggest using third generation hybrids: first generation hybrids are not generally used (loved) in European (and surely in italian) commercial winemaking (i mean: that’s what I know). You should inquire about which of these three has the characteristics you would like to convey to the Trebbiano.
Unfortunately I live in one of the most restrictive States in America when it comes to grapes.
Corporate Viticulture has shut the door on imports, unless you’re a Rich farmer.
I do have one other large clustered hybrid
ES 8-4-10
Rangspay x Riparia 89
it’s clusters are up to a foot long
but the berries are smaller than the Trebbiano.
Maybe you could find an American collector who already has them (although these are very recent). Another possibility is universities or genetic improvement institutes. Some time ago I wrote to an institute in Germany, they didn’t even answer me. A friend, on the other hand, who is fond of apples, has active collaborations with agricultural professors and gets some help. It depends on who you meet. Import regulations will have their reasons, even if they are sometimes incomprehensible: I know that in Europe we cannot produce transgenic wheat, but we can import it (and use it for human consumption) so, what are we talking about?
Interesting… what’s its taste like?
Nothing interesting
neutral
moderate acids
fair sugar.
but no off, herbaceous flavor.
Oh, and it’s female flowers.
That Rupestris / Cordifolia x Caribaea hybrid with Elmer Swenson’s. ES 4-23-60:
a female hybrid:
I crossed it with pollen of Riesling
since the Swenson hybrid also had a Riesling flavor.
Hopefully there will be a lot of seeds.
Great!
In the last weeks I did Muscat of Alexandria x Bronner (the first is one of the most aromatic and the second is desease resistant and early ripening - in the first 10 days of september). I also did Muscat of Frontignano (a particular canelli byotipe) x Regent. Moreover In the last days I’m doing Muscat of Hambourg x Sublima seedless (with target of a table seedless muscat grape). And I finally I plan to make Philip (a crunchy and disease resistant grape with a simple flavor) X Regina (a tasty grape with huge berries). I also hope to have many seeds
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Will keep you posted.
Viognier has an excellent wine quality
similar to the delayed flavor burst of Semillon.
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Yes Mutations of cultivars change forget I said this
Now Now I have to say I agree , but have to say I also disagree
as everyone do things differently
keep in mind some growers leaves a 100 year old bush to be as it is
No pruning Or anything
just a 100 year old vine crowded creating there own environment as is!
Now Not exactly the same wine we drink as mutations of cultivars
I do have to say I respect you, AND YOU seem opened minded realistic
I do think the way of vinification being passed down over time ,
and what works could be a wine that is not far from the old ways
(MLF Malic fermentaion can hapen natturaly )
but mainly this comes as a ideal as in Spain
solace wine stored in wine casket around ships
is still going around today. same tradition
But it is not as easy is who is right and wrong
I agree mutatations happen and families change their practices
I have drank a wine from France 25 years old made to be aged
I also understand some wines taste bad unless drunk before there time
but I think But I do not know those harsh wine meant to be aged
were for higher class people, and the way of extracting the HARSH tannin to be aged out, but appriciated wasn’t to far away of the system of what we have now
(IE. thin wine meant to be drunk young
good wine that needed to be stored to develop characteristics of the chemistry of wine)*
Interesting vines LUCA ,
and Like I said Do not disagree I know Pinot mutates a a lot
Just think it is more complicated , and want to express my tannin power.
dang nobody that doesn’t understand wine chemistry
isn’t going to understand what I am talking about
wish I could be more clear (for those)
but I just pissed double stream.
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boizea What Am I looking for (in the midwest )
to cross some muscat ?
Is A Flowering lubrusca that is late , but A early Type good
I wish I had cuttings seems the Neighbors cut it all down?
Lijke I was surprised by your intuition
is it good to have a japenese grape with not any acid
maybe to tame some of our (malic) acidic ones
I agree on the fact that there’s no final truth but I would make some clarification:1) Even wines that are made with very ancient regulations can be combined with today’s materials or techniques of contemporary enology (600 years ago there were no vats with temperature control that today could also be used in Nebbiolo which has an ancient disciplinary) 2) some wines have a disciplinary deduced from such ancient sources that it is impossible to be sure that they are behaving in the same way (take the mamertino that giulio cesare liked and that today is made as a CDO Controlled denomination of origin: are we sure that we are making the same wine just because we have put together some historical sources and found the vine that could have been originally used? 3) some traditions clash with modern criteria and have the right to be changed: my grandfather did not top the plant and in this way inhibited the formation of female I pick them and stimulate them, who of the two has a greater leaf surface in the phases of sugar concentration in the berries? So letting a 100-year-old vine grow without any intervention is not a “purist”, it’s just counterproductive. However, there are no comprehensive visions, each case is separate, each place and culture has its own customs and traditions and all of them deserve the utmost respect. But then it is natural that whoever is a professional winemaker (I am not) is critical, both with the flaws of the past and with the sophistications of the present!
@david: from viognier I have 5 rooted cuttings transplanted this year, still have not made clusters from which to take pollen or stigma …
Viognier has a rich floral character.
Becoming popular in Eastern Washington.
I have one Viognier hybrid vine.
Lijke…
@Francis_Eric were you wrinting to me? I’m not sure you were but… Which japaneese vine are you writing about?
LUCA I meant a grape with low acid like mentioned at beginning of discussion Any Idea’s of your own one ?
“Vitis coignetiae , called crimson glory vine, is a plant belonging to the genus Vitis that is native to the temperate climes of Asia”
(I mean when I tasted one at a park it was flavorless
I hope I could reduce Our native grapes acidity with it Or any you may suggest.)
As for that grape un pruned maybe I miss read but it was a while ago
(and I was drinking when wrote)
(See below)
and as for temperature control
some CLay tanks have been buried Qvevri in the past.
I know some places in Georgia the country
that even let vines grow up into the Tall tree’s , and have been for a long while
,but Here is the text from the BUSH VINE.
"Stellenbosch (South Africa) (AFP) - Gnarled and gnomish, the vines that produced the best white in one of the world’s top wine competitions crouch low and untrellised amid more traditional vineyards in South Africa’s scenic Cape winelands.
The Chenin Blanc made from these 40-year-old “bush vines” beat global competition across the full range of white wines to take the top spot in this year’s Concours Mondial de Bruxelles, which tested a total of 8,000 wines.
Winemaker Reginald (RJ) Botha says the Kleine Zalze estate outside Stellenbosch set out to build a wine that tasted of “elegance”.
Given that more than 320 experts from some 50 countries chose the 2013 Kleine Zalze Family Reserve as best white at the 22nd edition of the Concours Mondiale in Italy this month, they must have succeeded.
But elegance is not a word that springs to mind when looking at the denuded bush vines amid the autumnal beauty of the surrounding landscape.
Unlike trellised vines, they are three-dimensional, with at least five arms rather than two, and stand about knee-high.
Bush vines are less productive than trellised vines because they provide a greater canopy of leaf coverage to the fruit, and are also labour-intensive as they cannot be harvested by machine.
But their advocates say the lower yield and greater effort is worth it because the berries have much thicker skins and therefore produce more concentrated flavours.
“The winning Family Reserve comes from three different sites, that’s three different soils,” says Botha.
"All the vines are more than 40-years-old and are all bush vines. And they’re unirrigated.
"We get smaller berries, thicker skins – so there is lot more concentration of flavours in your grapes and a lot of different microclimates in one vine.
- Complex flavours -
"On a trellised vine all the grapes are in one segment so have almost the same microclimate, whereas in a bush vine, especially these old ones, one bunch is open, one is closed, one is a little bit closer to the soil…
“There’s so many different microclimates in each little vine it just brings out the complexity – there are more different flavour profiles in one vine, and that makes for wonderful wine.”
The winemaker’s tasting notes describe “concentrated aromas of lime, winter melon and apple fruit on the nose with layers of citrus and herbs on the palate” and “a creamy mouth feel and an elegant, long, fresh, earthy finish”.
Bush vines make up less than 10 percent of South African vineyards, and many farmers are pulling them out because of the lower yields and higher labour costs, Botha says.
The Chenin bush vines produce between three and five tonnes a hectare, compared to more than 10 tonnes from trellised vine.
The vines may be old but Kleine Zalze, which has produced grapes since 1695 and is now owned by Kobus and Mariette Basson, has a state of the art cellar.
“We let the wine do the talking,” Botha says, as he describes the minimal interference in the process from vine to bottle.
Kleine Zalze wines retail in South Africa for between 40 rand ($3.37) and 250 rand a bottle.
The 2013 Family Reserve Chenin Blanc was on sale for just 148 rand ($12.47) when it was crowned as the best white in the world.
South African wine exports have boomed since the lifting of international boycotts at the end of the racist apartheid system 21 years ago, and some hope that Chenin Blanc will raise the country’s profile the way that Sauvignon Blanc did for New Zealand.
Total exports grew from 99.9 million litres in 1996 to an all-time high of 417 million litres in 2012, with Britain the most important market, followed by Germany and Sweden, according to the producers’ group Wines of South Africa (WOSA).
The latest available figures, from 2011, rank South Africa as the eighth largest wine producer in the world – behind Chile in seventh place and ahead of Germany in ninth – WOSA says.
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I have a Video, but busy right now
I just had to search by Memory (doing a search on Bruce Reisch’s (of Geneva NY )
and do not feel like digging to much.
Remember though as Ron Lombrough Said
if it is a female all seeds produced in fruit will be new crosses
(no cutting male parts off perfect flowers)
Breeding Grapes - Grape Flowers
(edit also see links on LEFT )
Breeding Grapes - Making Crosses
Roland Maybe later For that Video but cannot Guarantee as maybe lost in cyber space
(I tried for a bit, and checked my notes as well)
You could always Hire robots to take 30000 pictures a day
and look into the genetics or DNA Markers of each cross to scan for disease resistance
Video by Cornell Agri tech
Improving grapevine breeding through robotic innovations
EDIT
It popped up on another User name (vitisgen) I didn’t even try looking
You could fast forward to 2 minutes , and 10 seconds
(i will probably read the transcript later on the video options )
VitisGen: How Grape Breeders Make Crosses
