Hi Eric. I know the pruning of the sapling vine, in Pantelleria in Sicily it has been practiced for so long that it has been declared a world heritage (as practice) by unesco… Also in the area of Syracuse (the Italian city) it is very popular and in addition to the load-bearing branches it is low on the use of stakes. I believe that it does not exclude the practice of topping. I don’t know many American vines with a neutral flavor: the girdiana, the californica and the champini could be neutral. Perhaps even arizonica. I must say, however, that I believe that the fruits that would derive from these vines would not have a very interesting aspect for the average consumer. “Don’t cut male parts from perfect flowers” makes no sense: the perfect flowers are hermaphroditic ones with both male and female parts, if you don’t remove the stamens from perfect flowers you will have a high chance that the plant will pollinate itself. Perhaps the quote should read “Don’t cut the male parts from only female flowers”.
op JUST SAW THIS shine Muscat
https://www.naro.go.jp/publicity_report/season/006525.html
Luca have some old vines in notes as well I’ve been reading about
will have to look into yours when I have time maybe in another month or so
I think you miss read what I meant Female grapes if not pollinated will give no fruit
anything that does pollinate will be a cross breed (since they have no male parts)
(not to say the seeds of a Hermaphordite will come true to type when planted out seeds)
so saying that one could be a breeder just by planting out a bunch of seeds, and selecting
breed by (itself) Nature , and selected by Man.
saying as much not like Humans do not select A MATE
so nothing wrong with pollenating some grapes
(I say as much b/c some hippies seem like it’s bad to cross breed some plants
I think they ARE MIXXED UP WITH gm wHICH i AM AGAINST,
AND at the end of the day I’m left telling stories of the birds, and bee’s to them. )
I do not want this to be side tracked, but
(I understand The Garden Industry made Heirlooms / hybrids Black, and white)
I grew some saved seeds of radish and they gave me Tap roots
I wish they’d educate people better
thought I’d add
Because I understand anti hybrid peoples point of view (and judgements being clouded by marketing.)
So By the way I see in my notes in the grape breeder group A tasteless grape
Might be vitis Cordifolia ( reading about Plainview Cordifolia)
I have nothing to complain!
gm: The cisgenetic techniques are respectful of the principles of the “Natural” process of crossing between the varieties. (Biologists take a single gene - or two, or three - from a subspecies OF THE SAME SPECIE - a gene that could very well be “passed on” even by hand pollination and selection from billions of individuals - and put it into a subspecies which has a defect such as susceptibility to a single disease -.
Apart from that gene, the variety on which you make the modification is identical to the plant from which it derives: this would mean having EXACTLY the wine or fruit identical to the “historical” one you want to protect and multiply but without using more pesticides for molds.
The use of transgenetic techniques, on the other hand, is highly questionable: if I take genes from a cactus to have drought resistance in grapes, I also disagree …
The challenges that will open up in the next 60 years are really hard: the world population is expected to rise to 60 billion people in a few decades. If we know how to lend a hand to mother nature (without creating Frankeinstain) perhaps we will be able to avoid wars, famines and (other) pandemics …
P.S. Currently in Europe cisgenic techniques are banned as if they were transgenic techniques.
Have a good set on the Riesling hybrid
at least 30 seeds
I have a good set on my
((E.S. 4-23-60)x (Rupestris-Cordifolia x Caribaea))
crossed with Riesling.
Probably over 30 seeds.
ES 4-23-60 also has Riesling ancestry.
as well as Couderc 299.35-
a strong Muscat of low vigor.
Hi David, I want to wait the end of the growth to make counts because the “female” plant that I usually use gives me many empty seeds, so I can’t count on the number of berries… I will tell you more after the 10th of semptember!
I checked the original vineyard today,
September 2nd. Found a very good muscat hybrid of Don Muscat, but the breeding records are lost. It’s got fairly strong muscat flavor
The black one is L50s riparia x Orange Muscat.
Hermaphrodite and early.
Have some good stuff to share and need to find out how to mail the seeds to you.
My public email is lucaiello74@gmail.com, if you write me there from your email your postal address I’ll send you mine. I didn’t understand if the white muscat you posted is that complex hybrid that you wrote me about… at the moment I can send you seeds from an early ripening white muscatel with low acidity or resistant bronner (early ripening - just in theese days with casual pollination). In a couple of weeks muscat of alexandria seeds… write me your preferences… I’m interested in the seeds of that complex hybrid we talk about ((E.S. 4-23-60)x (Rupestris-Cordifolia x Caribaea)) but I can send my seeds regardless of an exchange, no problem…
My kids ( who never take interest in the garden) have asked me if I can grow the grapes we get called “cotton candy” at $9.00 a pound at wholefoods! I doubt I could grow sweet grapes in coastal Massachusetts (6a). But I would love your thoughts. Thanks. Colleen
What happened to you?
Have a lot of grape seeds.
Looking for cuttings of a good muscat flavor hybrid grape.
Female flowers are okay.
Need early ripening plants.
possibly early midseason .
Hi David, I wrote you in private about two months ago, maybe you didn’t read… I’ve had many seeds this year, so I’m not going to ask anyone for seeds. I’d like to help you with cuttings but, as you know, I can’t from Italy and, anyway, I don’t have any muscat hybrid. Have a happy new year.Bye
Hi collen, sorry I see your wuestion right now, unfortunaly I don’know tha variety (and I also live in Europe). Happy new year!
I have a great hybrid of Flame Seedless with Elmer Swenson’s 5-17. It is virtually seedless, though there are some soft seed traces. Flavor is very much like Flame Seedless.
Major defect is that it overcrops, but this can be dealt with by a home gardener.
It ripens late in the Puget Sound region, but in warmer parts its fine.
Resistant to Mildew, slight suc. to botrytis. Large berries on a fairly large cluster.
Has anyone tried to use Vitis Coignetiae in grape breeding?
I have a few hybrids of the species.
@Boizeau
I believe H. Olmo bred some hybrids. There are a few accessions of the species at NCGR Davis. However, WA state prohibits import of the plant.
yes