I’m wondering what everyone thinks of the U of Arkansas grapes compared with Reliance, particularly in regard to flavor vs. standard store-bought (Vitis vinifera) table grapes.
We have (at least it was labeled as such) a Reliance vine and all of 5 of us in the family think it is pretty consistently bad tasting. It is seedless, but has a really strong aftertaste. They get sweet, but just taste funny to everyone since we are used to eating California and Chilean seedless grapes from the grocery store. We also have another unknown seedless grape that is pink which I think might be Sommerset seedless that we like a little better. It is earlier than the Reliance and smaller. It was labeled as Lakemont but is definitely pink and not green.
Are any of the U of Arkansas series - e.g. the planets - Mars, Venus, Neptune, etc… closer in flavor to a store-bought grape?
Reliance is a U of Arkansas grape although it is not named after a planet.
I had several Reliance vines for 8-9 years that I grew from cuttings from the late Lon Rombough. They produced as described. Sweet grape with a desirable flavor that I honestly liked for a home planting although I would not recommend it as a commercial grape. I never thought that it was bad tasting. I just would not say the grapes colored attractive as compared to store-bought grapes. Weak greenish pink color. Lack of size was also a problem. Minor black rot which was controlled by sprays. I did notice that the raccoons loved the taste of the Reliance grapes.
I also had several Jupiter vines during that time. The birds forced me to harvest these before they were completely ripe. They were edible at this stage, but I did see that when I got a few at their peak ripeness, they were absolutely comparable in flavor to the store-bought grapes.
Of course, our locations could explain our different experience in grapes.
Pierce’s disease forced me to transition to muscadines.
Most grapes with recent V. x labruscana ancestry will have the strong aftertaste often described in literature as “foxy”. Muscadines have a similar flavor as well.
For many grape varieties, you can search the name on this site and get information on pedigree, fruit color, and taste. Taste info, if included, is usually limited to foxy, muscat, or none, i.e. “typical” grape taste: https://www.vivc.de/index.php?r=cultivarname%2Findex
Of the three you mentioned, Mars is described as having a foxy taste, so I would rule that one out. Jupiter has Muscat parentage so the flavor will be a little different from most store-bought grapes but not like Reliance at all.
Thank you. I’d heard “foxy” before but never really had a sense of what it was. I am a bit bummed that Reliance has such a strong flavor, as there are so many wonderful things folks have to say about it. Whatever the other variety I have is, the foxy flavor is much less pronounced, but it is more of a slipskin grape so that also makes it a difficult sell to the family.
Any description of “muscat” that you would hazard to give?
Thanks for the website link. I’ll run some others that I can find online through it and see if I can find a replacement for my Reliance.
It varies from cultivar to cultivar and sometimes with stage of ripeness, but usually most people would describe it as floral or honey. When subtle, you might just think to yourself that it’s an extra flavorful grape, but when really strong it can be overwhelmingly floral, like roses or lavender. Most varieties aren’t that intense though, especially in your climate.
i don’t know if grocery stores in your area carry them, but you can sometimes find seedless pink muscat grapes imported from Chile around this time of year. Lychee is a good comparison if you’ve tried it before. If you’ve ever had Moscato wine, that is made from muscat grapes and tastes pretty much like the fruit.
Regarding “foxy” flavor, I’m not positive about this; but I think that it refers to the distinct flavor of Concord grapes. This is usually encountered in Welch’s Concord grape juice or similar types. To me, this is a fine flavor that I’ve been trying to find in a seedless variety. I planted Seedless Concord last year and hope that it tastes as good as seeded Concord grapes.
Most grocery store grapes have a flavor that would be described as neutral. Look for verities that are described as neutral tasting if that is what you are looking for.
Red Flame and Thompson seedless are two common ones with very sweet, mild flavor.
Has anyone had a Thompson seedless vine to live over 1 year outside of California? I planted a Thompson seedless vine from one of the big box stores and it produced a few grapes one year and then it died. Don’t know about Red Flame.
Thompson Seedless is late ripening; has no resistance to Pierce’s disease, phylloxera, downy and powdery mildew, or black rot; and needs very hot summers for good quality, so it’s not a great choice even for much of California. It’s an ancient variety and therefore very widespread, but there are now many varieties derived from it that perform much better in climates outside the Central Valley and Middle East.
Both of these varieties, and many other seedless ones, produce small berries (think small to medium blueberry) unless girdled and treated with gibberellic acid. The University of Arkansas releases will get to a decent size without treatment.
Mars and Venus should both have the flavor you want as well as being seedless. I have not tried either though.
Do you know anything about the qualities of any recent released varieties that supposedly has much better resistance to Pierce’s Disease? My understanding is that the industry has focused on that.
I have the more recent series from U Ark: Joy, Faith, Gratitude, etc. They are not bad-tasting but are not up to store grapes. I just pulled all I had except for Joy, it is the most flavorful one (but is still rather boring).
I am turning most of my grape area into kiwis at this point, unlike grapes the kiwis I grow taste better than the store ones.
Canadice was my favorite of the hardy seedless grapes when I grew them in Amarillo. But that’s been 45 years ago. Summer Royal tastes better than Flame or Thompson and has big pretty berries without treatment. It makes killer raisins. If they could breed the taste of Summer Muscat into something as beautiful as Princess or Summer Royal it would sell like hotcakes. Any hardy seedless with that taste would do the same. Doing so won’t seem that hard but then I’m no grape breeder.
I would say that a home grown, vine ripened Jupiter grape is way better than most store bought grapes. I think most grapes in stores are picked too early for shipping, so typically lack flavor. They do have better crispness. Jupiter has a mild muscat flavor and no “foxy” flavor at all to me. You do need to control foliar mildews or it loses hardiness and fruit quality. It had good black rot resistance.
The chemical that is responsible for the “foxy” or Concord flavor is methyl anthranilate. It attracts mammals, but repels birds. Muscat flavor is attributed to linalool.
I’m hoping to get my first Everest grapes this year from vines purchased from Double A a few years ago. I wasn’t a fan of the seed traces from my seedless Concords or Mars.
Thanks, Le Jardinier. I should have said that they are not available in British Columbia, Canada. I actually ordered Venus from Vignes Chez Soi in 2022. The order was accepted and billed, but I soon received an email saying that they can’t ship grapevines to BC. They also refunded my payment.
I also generally like Jupiter. The only grapes I kept are Jupiter, Joy (still may remove it), Golden Muscat, and New York Muscat. The latter two have seeds but they also have loads of flavor!