I’m going to break it up with radishes. This is the only thing Clint, not growing.
The arbor is in place with concrete, etc.
There’s a fence around it, etc. etc.
Years ago I didn’t think this would be any big deal.
Broadfork do the same thing.
My keyboard isn’t working…
this post wasn’t about how to break up soil, rather how to get 8-year vines growing
I labeled post generically not thinking and it became the discussion. All I care about is the grapes.
I wasn’t born yesterday is what I know! I know you understand that’s jokingly the issue.
Makes it tough too when you don’t have all the equipment to do what I said. Radishes and turnips will definitely help the top foot. I planted some grapes in clay at my house and some grapes at my farm. The grapes in the clay have been a struggle. I don’t need them there that bad or want to put in too much effort at that spot, they are what they are saying until they die.
I’ll see what happens.
I put too much into this and want grapes so I’m gonna try to loosen.
Gary and I cracked nuts and talked til 1 AM last night. 5-hours.
I built this base and have been buying up all ‘The May Nutcracker’ (s) coming up for sale on eBay. Now he has a portable one for his truck.
It was Gary’s birthday in March. I’ve never given him a present but decided I wanted to.
I’ve never given him a present but I built one of these portable nut cracker bases for Gary and have been buying all the ‘May Nutcracker’ that comes up on eBay. Now he has a portable pecan cracker to carry in his truck.
I was at his place till 1 in the morning. We talked for 5-hours and it was fun.
Honestly, I don’t know what I am doing different than you. If I dig down right now I would have those puddles of water as well. The only thing I can say is I did raise about 1 foot of a raised bed using compost but that has now settled down to maybe 4-6" above the surrounding ground so what contribution it is actually doing to keep roots above water I do not know.
In your situation, I would try a raised bed option. Try to get 1-2 foot tall mounds by say 3-4 feet wide and see what happens. You probably do not even need to dig up your plants to replant higher because if you bury them they should root from the trunks.
With regards to all the discussion of breaking up the clay for drainage and the like, unless you do the whole property and your neighbours OR you have connecting drainage doing a small section around your grapes will probably not do much. I have also seen no problems with grapes shoving roots wherever they want. They dig through clay no problem.
I’m going to pay a kid to use my broadfork. And mulch and gypsum.
Sorry everyone I posted this morning talking to @ctduckhunter and I was very tired. I thought it was a message.
best regards,
Dax
In Texas we had a heavy clay soil. My dad tilled in tailings from a a friend’s horse stalls - sand, hay, and hockey. That worked well. I tilled in Peat Moss and that worked well for me too. You just need to get some way for the water to get to the roots and for the roots to go somewhere. Make sure you do have a drainage path out so you don’t turn it into a bathtub. I just did the same thing to a new garden I made here in Oregon. The ground was highly compacted clay and I tilled down a food then added 6 cu-ft of peat moss. A front tine tiller makes things easier but it is still a lot of work.
Baco Noir tolerates clay soils better than most
but it’s a red wine grape 
.
Have you tried Gypsum?
BTW, one other disadvantage of tilling is that if you can’t go deep enough to get to loose soil, it can encourage the roots to stay shallow.
I’m finished with this thread as to my GRAPES learning to grow.
Anything else, I’ve already disclosed what I will have done.
Thanks- I just don’t need to beat this into the earth over and over and over.
Friendly,
Dax
Also
if you are in a wet region
shift to raised beds, because clay drains poorly.
That’s right…
Yes rototiller can cause problems
and they can even create a hardpan layer if the clay is damp. A ripper spike is better.
Yes, you’re correct.
Oops, you’'re posting to him. I’m sorry - this has all been discussed very thoroughly already in this exact thread. My apologies @markshancock
I don’t think anybody’s wondering but after I tilled, I of course dug a deeper hole and did this:
I do with every hardwood planted here. 95% of my soil is not as anaerobic as the Grapes guys.
I’ll keep my yap shut for a while.
D-man
your clay looks alot different than mine. here its usually reddish but the blue shale clay is far worse. if you want to seal the bottom of a pond here just find a blue clay vein and line the bottom before filling. the natives made pots from the blue clay, it was so dense. nothing will grow where there is pure blue clay.
Mines looks similar to Barslips. In the worst spots/veins–chunky and opposite of friable–almost like pottery clay, but not quite as bad as what you’re describing. My clay is on hillside though, so maybe it’s a bit more forgiving.
i guess it depends what type of rock its made out of and i agree on a slope my red clay grows good.
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