I’m concerned about fruit size on ohxf333 though I planted 100 333 rootstocks last year. Time will tell what works best.
I also have Magness on OHxF.87 so we’ll see what happens…
I have heard that how the dwarfing root stocks work as far as shrinking fruit is quite regional- so you are right.
I’m not sure 333 will have smaller or less fruit but like everyone I’ve heard the rumors. There are people that say they are less vigorous. I’m looking at some of the new rootstocks here http://treefruit.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pear-trees-rootstock-txt.png and see this link http://treefruit.wsu.edu/varieties-breeding/rootstocks/
Yes I normally would not gamble with 100 rootstocks right away like I did with 333 but I needed to get some in the ground. I normally do test crops with most fruit. The new pyro dwarfs are reportedly good but I know even less about them. This is what is said “PyroDwarf produces a tree 61% – 70% of the size of a seedling pear tree. It is an alternative to seedling rootstocks, as it produces large attractive trees which start bearing usually after 3-4 years. Being of Pyrus origin, there are no graft incompatibility issues with this rootstock. PyroDwarf is able to tolerate chalk / alkaline soils better than quince-derived rootstocks. PyroDwarf was developed from a cross between ‘Old Home’ (fireblight resistance) and ‘Louise Bonne dAvranches’ (ability to strike hardwood cuttings) pear varieties made by Helmut Jacob, at the Research Institute and College, Geisenheim, Germany, but has only inherited some of the ‘Old Homes’ fireblight resistance. However, it has been reported that this variety produces severe suckering with spiny shoots, as well as causing reduced fruit number (T. Auvil, WTFRC). Source: orangepippinstrees.com” - http://treefruit.wsu.edu/varieties-breeding/rootstocks/
I’m looking hard at the pyro dwarfs now for future plantings of pears due to my alkaline soil. This is what is said of 333 that I’m basing my concerns from “A semi-dwarfing pear rootstock. It is 1/2 to 2/3 standard size. Its resistance to fireblight, collar rot, woolly pear aphids and pear decline make this a very healthy stock. it is not very precocious and gives few fruit and with reduced size (T. Auvil, WTFRC). Source: Cummins Nursery” - http://treefruit.wsu.edu/varieties-breeding/rootstocks/
That initial report of 333 sounded pretty negative but this report is not as bad which came from the same source http://www.cumminsnursery.com/pearroot.htm
The OHxF series of rootstocks originated from crosses made more than 75 years ago by Reimer at Oregon State. Reimer was seeking primarily rootstocks resistant to fire blight; both the Old Home and Farmingdale parents are highly resistant. Reimer’s work was continued by nurseryman Lyle Brooks and by researchers at Oregon State. All the OHxFs are propagated by cuttings or in tissue culture – with considerable difficulty, as all are reluctant rooters.
OHxF333 A semi-dwarfing pear rootstock. It is 1/2 to 2/3 standard size. Its resistance to fireblight, collar rot, woolly pear aphids and pear decline make this a very healthy stock. Precocious, well-anchored. Trees are very productive. Some reports that fruit size is reduced
OHxF 40® A semi-vigorous pear rootstock, about 2/3 standard size. Resistant to fire blight, crown rot, woolly pear aphids, and pear decline. Precocious, well-anchored. Patented; royalty 50¢
OHxF 87® A semi-vigorous pear rootstock, about 2/3 standard size. Resistant to fire blight, crown rot, woolly pear aphids, and pear decline. Precocious, well-anchored. Patented; royalty 50¢.
OHxF 97 A vigorous pear rootstock. Standard size, but more precocious and productive than seedling stocks. Appears to be especially valuable for Asian pears.
DWARFING PEAR ROOTSTOCKS For many years, pears have been grafted onto quince rootstocks to obtain dwarf trees analagous to apple trees dwarfed on Malling 9. Most varieties of pears are more or less incompatible on most quince clones (but in several instances, including Bartlett on Quince A, expression of incompatibility may often be delayed until 8 or 10 years or more in the orchard). All the quince stocks we have tested have been quite susceptible to fire blight and most are somewhat winter-tender. Even so, there are many outstanding plantings of dwarf pears in commercial production.
At Cummins Nursery, we graft onto Quince only those few varieties known to be compatible.
SEEDLING The industry standard. Pear seedlings are still quite satisfactory if proper care is given. Pyrus betulifolia (“BET”) seedlings are the rootstocks of choice for Asian pears. A number of extensive field trials have shown that fruit size is increased significantly as compared to other rootstocks. We also use Winter Nelis seedlings – somewhat more winter-hardy than BET. "
Your round unknown pear, could it be a Minie or a Menie, I have one of each and may have the tags mixed up due to finding both on the ground after a storm when they were young. One is a long pear and the other is round.
They both go from green to dead ripe almost over night and soften immediately after ripening, so need to be bottled or eaten right away. They are lucious and melting, no grit, full flavoured, earlier than Bosc or Patten, or even Red Clapp.
As for Abate Fetel, I have two seedlings from grocery store fruits, they have made one winter in the porch, but not in open ground. I am north of Nova Scotia, and my porch is not insulated. it will be fun to see if they winter when I plant them out this spring. I try to get a little size on them so the mice can’t pry the spiral tree wraps off them quite so easily. grin
I apologize for hijacking your post with an unknown pear. Hopefully we all continue to remember your original goal which was a cold hardy Abate Fetel style pear. Here is a video of Abate fetel at their best for anyone not familiar with the variety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF8HraBLYtE. It is a difficult pear to match.
I see very vague mention of the pears you mentioned in some old NAFEX threads. They appear to be Canadian pears RE: [nafex] Pear leaf spot & Re: [nafex] Minie / Miney pears. Another mention of the series http://cjoliprsf.awardspace.biz/Documents/SavignacPears96.pdf & http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/Documents/PearArticle07.pdf
Finally found them and they are similar. Some of these are a cross of Zuckerbirne x Clapp Favorite or Kurskaya x Flemish Beauty which potentially would be high quality pears. The attached descriptions should help you identify your pears Jocelyn. The photos are not the best but ripening times are descriptive…
Thank you Jocelyn for bringing up a couple of these varieties because I was unaware of them. At least one of these are virus infected so be aware of that if you request the scion wood from the usda and make sure your requesting the ones that are not infected. I combed through the main catalog to find them http://www.ars-grin.gov/cor/catalogs/pyrcult.html. You can see some similarities in these pictures on the USDA website https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?accid=%20PI+617571
This was another picture they listed “Image for: PI 318838 - Scanned black & white figure from F.S. Howlett. 1957. Ohio Ag. Exp. Station Research Bulletin 790.
Taken by: Howlett, F.S., on 1957.
Inventory sample: PI 318838 **
Comment: Photograph showing fruits of pear cultivars: Enie, Miney, Moe, Tyson, Philippe Chauveau, Early Seckel, Caywood, Menie”
The leaves on my unknown yellow pear shown below are similar and pears are somewhat similar. These additional pictures below may help to identify my pear.
If your trying to learn more about the Canadian varieties then you will also be interested to know in 1947 they sent some pear crosses out to be grown out such as savignac ronde verte which is listed here Savignac Ronde Verte Pear Tree - Flavourful disease resistant pear- Nursery. Researching these pears could lead to the discovery of many others. The unknown pear I have may in fact be an unknown cross from that series. A pear called Savignac can be obtained here in the U.S. http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/pears.html. I find it interesting that anyone would confuse the old fashioned kieffer with this variety but when I purchased my tree from the Arbor Day Society that is what they sold the tree as being. One notable characteristic you can tell about the pear I grow by the photos is it’s notably long stem. I will do my best to make sure this little yellow pear does not wind up being another exceptional pear lost to time. Of the above photos the pear 170084 is the closest in this series of pears to a match with my pear. The others seem to have a shorter stem or rounder form. They do appear to possibly be it’s siblings. My pear has thorns when it’s small if that helps with identification. I do have a possible theory as to how this supposed old fashioned kieffer came to be sent to me which is it may have been a rootstock that’s graft failed before they sent it to me because it did not show a graft union. Moe was actually used in Canada as rootstock. I suspect that’s why my pear is compatible with everything I’ve tried to graft it to and it looks like I was not the first one to notice the ease of compatibility http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex/2009-January/033955.html. Additional testing was being done as you can see here "Pear. The following seedlings are undergoing extensive test: 0-291 and 0-292, both from Winter Nelis x Bartlett; 0-301 (Menic x Winter Nelis); and 0361 (Miney x Phileson). Grosses involving the hardy variety Karl Sabioski, Bartlett and high-quality 0-291 were effected in 1950. " - https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19561603667. These were pollination requirements "Author(s) : HUNTER, A. W. S.
Book : Progress Report. Horticultural Division, Experimental Farm Service, Canada, 1949-53 1955 pp.20-1 pp. ref.bibl. 3.
Abstract : The pollination requirements of the pear varieties Enie, Menie, Miney, Moe and Phileson have been studied. Enie, Menie and Phileson were each satisfactorily pollinated by any one of the other 4 varieties. Miney gave a satisfactory crop when pollinated by Enie, Moe and Phileson, while Moe was pollinated satisfactorily only by Menie and Phileson. Phileson, and to a lesser extent Enie, Menie and Miney were self-fertile, while Moe was self-sterile. All varieties were regularly capable of producing an appreciable quantity of mature fruits from emasculated but un-pollinated flowers; these fruits were seedless. Seedless fruits were also produced by self-pollinations, by Menie pollinated by Miney, and by Phileson pollinated by Enie, Menie and Miney.
Record Number : 19560302472
" - https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19560302472
Clark, as our resident pear genius, would Abate fetel grow in central Ia. z5a/b?
By no means am I an expert on Abate Fetel but I can tell you It’s a little to cold in your climate. It prefers Zone 6-9 and it’s even picky about where it grows in those zones. I grew it very well last year but my graft was broken off by a storm. I’m looking for another opportunity to try again this year. If your looking for a difficult and highly sought after pear to grow I would recommend you try Forelle which will survive in zone 5-9. It’s going to be a stretch to grow it there but I think it would be worth a try. It’s susceptible to any and every disease.
Clark, any idea where I might find Abate Fetel? I know Trees of Antiquity had it, but think they’re sold out
You will want to order it pretty soon abate fetel is also known as abbe fetel http://www.raintreenursery.com/Abbe-Fetel-E.-Pear-OHxF333.html
Thanks, Clark, done!
Thanks, Clark. I just bought one too. Feed the addiction!
I didn’t take photos of pears on our trees, it will have to be the fall now.
Moe as a rootstock sounds plausable, likely even. Interesting about the seedless fruits, I do get those here…some even on the Boscs.
Abbate Fetel is in a pollination group with Bosc and some of the other cold hardy pears. It will be interesting to see what those two seedlings I have do.
Commercially, growers want a good pollinator, so may no have planted a good eating pear as donor…but they might, grin, so I plant seeds. having checked out hardyfruittrees, Nova pears caught my eye. Cold hardy desert pears, sweet, sounds good. Might have to order one in a while, grin
In your situation Abate fetel should be excellent due to the wonderful California climate. I would caution others some of these high quality pears are extremely difficult to grow outside of perfect conditions. I have a location where even Seckel was difficult to grow due to disease and pest pressure. I removed my first seckle trees and planted a new strain of Seckel again in another location where they have done well.
What was your source of the second strain of Seckel?
I got the strain of seckel I’m using now from @39thparallel who lives a short distance from me. We frequently exchange scions in the spring. I requested another child of seckel this year from Grin which is PI 541184 aka Early Seckel.
Thanks, Clark. Yes, I read all about this cultivar’s finikiness. But that it performs better in warmer climates (hence why it is almost exclusively grown in Italy). My biggest concern is FB, so it will be a tree I keep my eye on, closely. So far, I’ve only had one FB strike, and oddly, it was on my Seckel, which is supposed to be resistant to FB. Apparently, I have the same Seckel cultivar you must have had. I was able to cut it out, and it has not returned, but I also watch my Seckel. It is well established now, and was the first pear to bear for me. Crossing my fingers every season with this Seckel, and will also do the same for AF.
Wow, thank you for sharing all that info. I don’t understand a thing they are saying in the video… but my eyes get it! Wow… such a beautiful fruit… These Enie, Menie, Miney, Moe pears look very nice and… they were bred here, very close to my home in fact! So that’s great for me… ! Yours look like Tyson to me. Thanks for sharing again.
Interesting! I asked the opinion of Ajetteaqua (https://poirespetitsag.wordpress.com/) today. He actually recommanded Early Seckel to me; “excellente et parfumée. Le goût est beurré et un peu différent de celui d’une Abbé Fétel et surtout, le fruit est plus petit. Mais leur parfum est exquis et le fruit est fondant et délicieusement sucré.”
“Excellent and fragrant. “Beurré” taste, a bit different than Abbé Fétel, smaller. Exquisit perfume (aromas), melting and deliciously sweet/sugary.”
Note: He is in zone 3/4. He grows this variety, but says it doesn’t like the occasionnal -35 C … !!
I grew it for a few years in the Austin, Texas area. I grew it on Quince BA29C. It made a small shrub with thick branches and it fruited in the third leaf. Very, very good quality. I never had FB even when some of my other trees did. That could have been luck for sure. In my experience FB is very random. Also South Meadows nursery has it in there catalog at least and they appear to grow it on Quince also.