How hardy is pakistan or shahtoot mulberry (morus macroura) REALLY?

I know many of you grow the true Pakistan and/or Shahtoot mulberry. There are many online resources that claim they are hardy as low as zone 6, while others claim zone 9. I’ve searched around this forum and still can’t find many first hand experiences stating how hardy these varieties really are. What’s the truth here?

I am hoping to grow these in zone 8. Once in the past 10 years we dropped below 20F but we rarely get down to 22F.

I will try to grow a hardy bud mutation of the Pakistan Mulberry next year.

Got it from here:

The owner of this nursery told me that his version of the Pakistan Mulberry is quite hardy … though late frosts are still problematic.

Gonna plant it at a wind protected place, south wall (Iam in Zone 7)

Iam excited to “try” it next year.

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I have a Pakistan and the past few winters here have been around 15F for a low and the tree is fine. Brady

that doesn’t sound bad at all. As mentioned by @Austro_PawPaw, do you often get late frosts?
pak’s are not smart to spring freezes-- leafing out as early as peaches here, and sometimes earlier, and feel it may be the main problem when growing in colder regions.
all other mulbs leaf out late.

We do have late frosts, but I think they may not be as bad as some other areas. I’ve been successful with low chill apples, peaches, and apricots that often leaf out in late January. While we get some temps in the upper 20s during this time, the trees don’t seem to mind much.

I have read some accounts of the Pakistan mulberry being ultrasensitive to the late freeze/frost compared to some stone fruits. Is this true?

Mulberries and several other fruit species that generally love heat, leaf out and flower late, and are low chill (figs, grapes, persimmon, etc) are more sensitive to late freezes than many stone fruits. A mild frost that won’t hurt many stone fruits will defoliate mulberries and the others mentioned. I don’t know if the fruit is more sensitive but the new foliage certainly is. The fruit tends to come late on things like mulberry so it is the foliage and new shoots that shows damage when late freezes happen.

Hey Brady! Where did you get it? I’m looking at adding a few trees at my cottage in 2018 (I need to prep the land this season, a huge task as property is invaded by phramites).
Stark sells a Pakistan says it hardy to 6, and says it’s Morus macroura.

We have some wilds around here, some are really good, others are bland, depends on the individual tree. They had no fruit this year, we did have a late freeze, which happens about once every ten years in this area. So worth growing those sensitive types as most years all is fine.

Burnt Ridge Nursery. Brady

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Thanks, cool, say to zone 7 there. I still may try it? Maybe from Stark, it may be different?
Silk Hope appears hardy enough for here, you have that one? Any opinions?

I believe the macroura mulberries are from the Himalayan region, so I would guess they are cold hardy, but I truly do not know.

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I do have Silk Hope and that one may have come from Burnt Ridge also.The tree is still young,although the fruit is probably the sweetest Mulberry I’ve tasted. Brady

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Thanks again guys for the info, Now I remember you talking about this before! Getting old I guess?
I should try the more hardier types first, then experiment. KOKUSO MULBERRY (Morus latifolia) As listed by Burnt Ridge sounds like it is super hardy, yet good, Oscar’s and Noir Of Spain sound like they could do well here too. Catalog descriptions always sound good. I have over a year to decide.
To get back to the OP question, it sounds like Pakistan is worth trying in your area. probably not in mine.

I just contacted a nursery in Phoenix that sells “Pakistan” and White Pakistan" aka “Shahtoot”. I was under the impression that they are both Morus macroura but they claim both are Morus alba. Lots of online nurseries claim the same thing, with Just Fruits and Exotics (who I hold in the highest regard) being one of a few exceptions.

Does a Morus alba “Pakistan” even exist? They claim both have the long berries that “Pakistan” is known for.

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I don’t think so, as under both descriptions of alba or macroura I have seen the non stain properties, mentioned. So whatever species, they all appear to be the same.

For me, the Kokusa mulberry had very little flavor. I got rid of it.

burntridge seems to be getting it mixed up with the nigras(and albas) just the past couple of years. They were ok prior to that.
they have this new item this year marketed as ‘black mulberry’ but species is alba, whereas the picture shown is a nigra, so not sure if the alba name is wrong, or the picture is wrong

I have Kokuso and Oscar planted side by side. Birds have gotten almost all of both so far, but the few Oscar I had were good.

I don’t think I’ve gotten any Kokuso yet, so maybe they taste even better to the birds. They do have very nicely ornamental massive leaves.

I can provide scionwood of both varieties. Mulberries are pretty easy to graft. Maybe not quite the take rate of apples and pears, but not much harder. Maybe in the same area as plums and much easier than most other stonefruit.

I need trees, I have no mulberries to graft to. OK, so members have said Oscar and Silk Hope are decent. I think Rolling River has them if Burnt Ridge is a concern (no they do not have sild hope). As far as Black Beauty, it illustrates the problem with common names. I do have Back Beauty myself, but it is an elderberry.

Have you tried walking around, looking for seedlings that the birds have planted? Maybe things are different in your part of the country, but I found 3 different seedlings this year. I’m planning to transplant them to rentals, so that they can grow, as I don’t have much space for mulberries here.

Come to think of it, I may be seeing more seedlings because of all the berries that I’m losing to the birds. But, even before them, I remember seeing a few around.

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No I have not looked. I have to “look” when I walk around. I never thought about doing that, but it makes perfect sense to use them as rootstock. Well adapted to the area, etc. Thanks for the tip! I may ask next year, thanks too! I did not plan to plant any till 2018 anyway. So I will be looking next year!