Hybrid Persimmons Future Look Great


#201

Dax,

So the two 400 series were not the “O.P. Nikita’s Gift” is ‘Dr. Kazas’?

Tony


#202

Hi Tony,

"I have included scion’s from 4 open pollinated seedlings of the
Nikitskaya Bordovaya, Nikita’s gift. One is a male a 2nd one has never
flowered the other 2 should be female. They are 400-5, 400-7, 400-8 and
Dr. Kazas. I don’t remember the CV number of the now named variety I’m
releasing as Dr. Kazas. Dr. Kazas was a plant breeder at the Nikita
Botanic Gardens in Yalta Crimea. One of his endeavors was back breeding
Rosseyanka to kaki to produce a more kaki like persimmon with improved
winter hardiness. He wrote several papers on the subject and bread the
variety Nikitskaya Bordovaya named Nikita’s Gift. In the US. Jim Gilbert
received the 1st accession directly from Dr. Kazas. I plan to write an
article of the release including a brief bio of Dr. Kazas.

Dr. Kazas is a large mid season persimmon, soft, sweet, clear pulp.
Simply a great persimmon and genetically is 50% virginiana, 50% kaki." Jerry Lehman


#203

How do we know the genetic percentage? Was the test done?


#204

Nikita’s gift is 75% Kaki and 25% D.V. then O.P. Nikita’s Gift with a male D.V then that should make the offspring 50:50 Kaki/D.V. (all the 400 series)
the male D.V. in Jerry Lehman orchard probably from the Early Golden family.

Tony


#205

Hey,

My genetic classe are far away.

We agree, each parent will give 50% of its genetic heritage?

I agree whith Nikita (25 k x75 v )
The supposed male is a pure virginiana, so 100 %v

When making the reproductive organs each parent will give half of his genes.

Nikita will therefore offer 2 possibilities.
Either (25%k x 25%v) or (50%v)
Conversely, the male will have given (50%v).
The result of fertilization can only give the maximum (25%k x 75%v). This result may be lower if crossing ower


#206

I leave rosseyanka to explain.
For me it’s a hybride between 1 and 25% khaki because le genetic recombination. But only a test can say it for me.:wink:


#207

Your math looks right. Dr. Kazas being 75% V x 25% kaki. I have often wondered how Jerry came up with 50% x 50%.

No genetic testing. I have some recollection of Jerry telling myself and the few others in the group that Dr. Kazas is a seedling he grew from Nikita’s Gift being open-pollinated in his orchard. 99.9% of the trees in his orchard are 100% virginiana.

Sure there is guesswork still about the possibilities of self-pollination but, we will never know without genetic testing.

Your math is right.

Dax


#208

Things would be very different if the pollinator is rosseyanka or other hybrids.
There 50/50 is possible.

I always try to explain also that it is the maximum 25% . We are in the theorie of Mendel’s Loie.


#209

Arthus,

Nikita’s Gift is a seedling of Rossyanka (50% Kaki : 50% D.V) back crossed to Kaki (100%) to get a better taste of Kaki but less cold hardy than Rossyanka at 50:50 because of more Kaki than the American persimmon D.V. My Rossyanka can handled the cold to -20F but Nikita’s Gift only can handled the cold to -8F with lots of the top died back.

Tony


#210

400-05 Bark grafted 5-15-18

400-07 Bark grafted 5-15-18

Rossyanka Bark grafted 5-15-18

Kasandra Bark grafted 5-1-17 Survived -19F wrapped with one layer of Surgery’s drape. 6 feet tall.

JT-02 Bark grafted 5-1-17 Survived -19F wrapped with one layer of Surgery’s drape. 5 feet tall

This coming winter they’re on their own with no protection. Go on and grow some persimmon hybrids in the Midwest. @bar @smc

Tony


#211

J2-02 I’m interested to get wood, Tony.

In a raised bed I like you will be trialing Kasandra, Rosseyanka (should be fine), & Mikkusa. All without winter protection.

Dax


#212

JT 02 also for me. 2 trees grafted in april 2018


#213

You like in live


#214

To come back to the subject, there is no other hybrid F1 in Ukraine know


#215

F1 is the first Hybrid persimmon offsprings. So what happens to them all in Ulkrain?


#216

It seems to he only work from rosseyanka and nikita. They are no less strong so far.


#217

I am glad that the botanical gardens in Ulkrain came up with the original F1 and F2 hybrid persimmons in the late 50"s or else We would not have this Rossyanka specimen tree like this one at JF&E.

Tony

images (2)


#218

Hi everyone! I am looking into purchasing one hybrid persimmon and I was wondering if there is a favorite variety that any of you have that you would highly recommend? Never gotten the chance to taste a hybrid before. My family is looking into buying a tree to place in our front yard. Flavor wise, would love high sweetness and a more complex flavor. I have been looking at some varieties at Englands such as Kasandra and JT-02, but also got excited when I watched this video of a Rosseyanka at Edible Landscaping in VA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSBOenTG-yg

I haven’t found much info out there about differences in flavor profile.

I’m also thinking about 100-46 (Lehman’s Delight), since Cliff England says on his website it doesn’t get too big. Any comparisons between a top virginiana such as this to common hybrids?

I appreciate all your advice! This thread has been very informative.


#219

JT-02 is a great tasting hybrid with a very rich flavor. 100-46 is large size fruit for the American persimmon and taste great also. Prok is also very large and one of the top tasting American persimmon by eating soft right off the tree without any trace of astringency.

Tony


#220

Thanks for the recommendations Tony! Any opinions on the differences between Rosseyanka and Nikita’s Gift (or even Kasandra)? I see Englands says Kasandra tests at a brix of 21. Do the other two come close?