LOL, it’s Joe but that’s OK. Here’s more from memory, which means that it is approximate and maybe unreliable . . . .
The first PCNAs were found in Japan, maybe 500 years ago. Until 100 years ago, there were only a small handful of known varieties, something like 12. With the accumulation of sports and cross-breeding within the PCNA group, that number is now up to 100 or so.
This is important: There are no Japanese-type PCNAs anywhere in the world that did not develop from trees that originated in Japan. All the Korean names derive from Japanese imports during the Japanese occupation. Same for the Eastern European variety, Chinebuli.
The conclusion that some Japanese PCAs carry the PCNA mutation comes from studies of crossbreeding. SOME Japanese PCA x Japanese PCNA crosses produce too many PCNA offspring for the PCA to be homozygous for astringency. This heterozygosity should not surprise us. If the NA mutation appeared randomly in the wild, it would have taken cross-pollination (in-breeding) over many generations to produce a wild PCNA that is homozygous for non-astringency. Meanwhile, the NA gene would have spread.
Recently, a few Chinese NA varieties have been discovered with a totally different mutation. This mutation is dominant. NA varieties seem rare in China, so presumably the mutation is relatively recent and has not spread far.
Elsewhere I have encouraged the cross-breeding of JT-02 x Taishu to produce a PCNA hybrid that is homozygous for non-astringency. A much more direct path would be cross-breeding of DV with one of the non-astringent Chinese names, if that can be achieved.
I’ve updated the list of hardiness and flower type(s) above to include:
Dr. Kazas - a seedling of Nikitskaya Bordovaya of Jerry Lehman, IN. USA.
Nikitskaya Bordovaya / Nikita’s Gift
The last pieces I can share are: this text from Jerry Lehman via email:
Diospyros: ‘400-5’, ‘400-7’, ‘400-9’
“They are all progeny of Rosseyanka with 400-5 being staminate, the other two pistillate. Dr. Kazas however is an open pollinated seedling of Nikita’s gift. I do have some other open pollinated seedlings of Nikita’s Gift but there’s nothing special about them. 400-7 is very small but very sweet, I’ve measured the brix at over 30. I sent scion wood of it back to Ukraine for them to breed to their best kaki males. I must’ve made a mistake with 400-8, it actually is 400-9 (there is no 400-8 tree) is larger than Rosseyanka the flavor is nearly the same. Just like her mother 400-9 is late ripening.” (Jerry Lehman, Dec. 24, 2018)
Here at my home, I have 400-7 grafted.
An update 10/2022 Clifford England says it’s the size of a pinky, fingernail. The (same) size as Diospyros lotus fruits. Clifford viewed Jerry Lehman’s labeled tree Fall of 2022.
Forcing all my inground hybrid persimmons to go into early dormancy by stripping all the leaves now and will dig them up for transplant in late October because the new acreage home will be done in late February for the move but the ground still frozen here and I won’t be able to dig them up at that time.
Just harvested more American persimmon crossed with Jerry’s Lehman Nikita’s Gift male offspring. This is my multi grafted American persimmon tree with 8 varieties on it. There will be lots of new hybrid persimmons from this batch with all the seeds from the 8 varieties.
Just collected some hybrid persimmon seeds and some paw paw seeds that I crossed Mango pewpaw with Kentucky Champion pawpaw seedling. I have a feeling that this pawpaw hybrid fruit will be huge considering the two parentage.
Diospyros 400-9 ( a seedling of Rosseyanka from Jerry Lehman ) is a very nice fruit and very large however sustained winter damage at The Lehman Orchard near Terre Haute IN during 2022 when temps didn’t drop below O F ever… This is for your information via Cliff England (9.27.2022). He’s been to Jerry’s 4x this month. I asked him about Dr. Kazas and he never knew where it was located. Luckily it’s an easy one to remember/find. Hopefully Clifford will get some information another year or maybe this year as it was completely dropped this same time 2017.
Is there any breeding work happening with JT02 as one of the parents?
It appears that there are a lot of new varieties with Rosseyanka or Nikita’s gift in parentage coming out of Ukraine. Given that NG is not very cold hardy and JT02 is, I was wondering why I don’t hear of much happening with JT02.
Also, Is there a distinct taste difference between NG and JT02? I haven’t yet tasted JT02 but should have an opportunity to do so this year (just 1 fruit)
I believe my JT02 was pollinated by Maru which had male flowers at the same time. Is it worth saving seed and growing seedlings?
My NG was pollinated this year — by Maru also.
If you don’t want the seeds, I’m sure someone would. I think it’s a great opportunity to introduce more of the pollination variant trait into hybrid persimmons.
I’d say I’d plant it Ram, but I don’t know much about Chocolate. Whether the hardiness has a chance in 5b IL? -18 is harsh here. it’s gotta be hardy to -15 though. then I’m solid.
@ramv – I started a thread last winter based on the premise that we are 1 cross away from a NA hybrid. We just need JT02 back-crossed to Taishu, its male parent. It’s such an obvious strategy that I have to believe someone is pursuing it. But I know nothing.
I wish there was an obvious source of Taishu in the US. Maybe One Green World or some other nursery will import it one day. There are other male PCNA varieties out there too but some are very late ripening. I feel having that trait passed on would make the hybrids less useful for individuals searching for increased cold hardiness. Cold winter locations likely also have a more restricted growing season.
What we really need is a hybrid that had a PCNA as a parent. It would be great for crossing with all the female PCNA trees we already have. Think of how many seeds we could have, since many of us have mature trees that bear hundreds of fruit. That would surely guarantee some PCNA hybrid offspring.
