Rob,
It is just depend what you are after in traits. I have a Red Fuji apple and I like it a lot but I also like my Grand Gala apple. I like the sweetness , crunchiness, and super large size of the Grand Gala. So I use the pollen of Grand Gala and brush them on my Red Fuji apple lowers and white paper bagged them. I then used the Red Fuji apple seeds to grow out some seedlings. I just wanted some of that good traits from the Grand Gala to pass down to my Red Fuji seedlings.
Tony
Hereās a fun discussion on what Purdue and Rutgers scientists went through to produce the Williams Pride apple:
Just got my order inā¦hope Iām not too late. Must not be, it accepted the request. Does anyone know what the measure āSoluble Solidsā is actually measuringā¦is it brix level?
I ordered all Malus, nothing else. Here is what I requested. Any comments or suggestions?
Northern Spy Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 588973 Black Gilliflower Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 589117 Arkansas Black Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 589215 Crimson Gold Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 589618 Keo Malus hybr. 2 Scion GEN
PI 589687 Pixie Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 589965 Priscilla Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 590180 Blue Pearmain Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 199419 Lamb Abbey Pearmain-B Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
PI 256108 Greenmeadows Coxās Orange Pippin No.1163 Malus domestica 2 Scion GEN
Jeff,
How does one know if their order has been accepted?I put in for some things at the Corvalis,Oregon branch and am not sure.
Here is a little something about soluble solids. Brady
Measurement of Soluble Solids Content
D. Garner, C.H. Crisosto, P.
Wiley, and G.M. Crisosto
I. Theory
A. Sugars are the major soluble solids in
fruit juice. Other soluble materials
include organic and amino acids, sol
uble pectins, etc. Soluble solids
concentration (SSC%,
o
Brix) can be determined in a small sample of fruit
juice using a hand held refractometer
. This instrument measures the
refractive index, which indi
cates how much a light b
eam is ābentā when it
passes through the fruit juice.
Brady, Iām assuming if it takes the order then they accepted it. I ordered last year and no issues. I did check the box to update me, also you can view progress of your order after logging in.
So then a measure of 18 in Soluble Solids does not necessarily mean a brix level of 18, but probably something close to thatā¦right?
Right now,to me brix means soluble solids or sugar content.There is probably more to it though. Brady
OK. I was surprised to see a very old apple like Blue Permain with such a high soluble solids (18), hard and firm flesh and no fireblight recorded. Maybe itās not as good as it soundsā¦I dunno.
Iāve had Blue Pearmain from Whole Foods before and it matches up to the description Iāve seen online of āmeatyā and āfillingā. It is firm, but not super crunchy. Thoreau wrote a bit about it, which was posted recently by Matt.
Iāve got a graft of it on my franken-apple tree, which I think is just about ready to fruit. From my initial sample, I think one branch of it will be plenty of me. Just in case you are expecting blue fruit, I should mention that it gets the name from just a bluish hint from the bloom.
Iāve written about Priscilla quite a few times- it is a nice late Aug or early September. A good bearer (it hasnāt skipped any years, even after being under-thinned). It isnāt great eating, but is pretty good. Also 4X disease resistance.
Of the ones new to me, Black Gilliflower (15.2% SS, āhealthy, dense leaves; productiveā, āpopular in late 1800s because kept well in non refrigerated cellarsā) and Pixie (14.6% SS, ācrisp, fine-textured, fairly juicy with good aromatic flavorā) look most interesting.
Iām not sure that there is a 100% overlap in Soluble Solids and BRIX, but they are very close. I treat them as equivalent when looking at the stats.
Yeahā¦I was familiar with the bloom giving the name and also of Thoreauās mention of it (though I hadnāt seen Mattās post).
I look primarily for DR and firmness along with juciness, color and keeping ability and aromatics and not necessarily in any order.
Lamb Abbey is highly touted among the few I found that even knew of it. I got it because my daughterās name is Abbey, so it just peaked my interestā¦kinda silly I know.
Something Iāve noticedā¦ ARS seems to wildly inflate FB susceptibility imo.
Iām sure youāve heard of Black Gilliflower by itās common name āSheepās Noseā.
Bob, what is the highest brix apple youāve seen at ARS? What has been the highest juice content apple youāve seen there? I wish they had an advanced search function where you could single out particular traits for selection purposes.
Your wish is granted. In post 23 of this thread, I show you how, right under āOne other trickā. For things which donāt categorize easily (like the example I showed with flesh color), it will list them in order.
This subject came up a while ago in GW, and I commented on it about half-way down in this thread (the nice grid formatting I made was stripped out during the Houzz conversion)
There are a bunch of super-high brix crabs, but for normal-sized apples, here are a few of the top ones (most in the 21-23 range):
Grosse Launette French Cider apple
Kokko
Pitmaston Pineapple X 692- French bred. In 3 different yearās notes it is called Astringent, sub-acid, and acid
Peau dāAne French russeted apple
Hyslop Crab (large crab, small apple)
Pitmaston Pine Apple
Golden Russet
Ross Nonpareil
Of the above list, I have Pitmaston Pineappe, Peau dāAne, Golden Russet, and Ross Nonpareil.
Iāve heard of it, but never sampled it. Sounds interesting.
I agree- most apples seem to be a 5/5, max rated. Iāve never had a FB strike (that I know of), so it hasnāt been a big concern to me yet.
I had some of those from Whole Foods one time and they were good, but not great. Sweet-tart, with decent brix and of small size. Better than Blue Pearmain, which had decent brix, but tasted like a mid/lower brix apple.
Similar to Goldrush would you say for sugar / acid balance? Iām thinking (perhaps wrongly) that itās texture is on the order of Goldrush as well, or maybe Winesap (which really appeals to me)? The only thing I really like a lot better about the antiques is that seemingly a lot of them have that dense- hard flesh that I suppose was necessary (usually) for good keeping ability.
It wasnāt bad in either area, but didnāt match up to Goldrush in texture or taste. But it was a grocery store apple, not one I grew and ripened myself, so it isnāt an even comparison.
It was a few years ago, so Iāve pulled up my notes from the time. I recorded this from an apple tasting I had with my parents on 10/12/2012:
Lamb Abbey Pearmain ($2.49/lb at Whole Foods, from an orchard in Vermont)- 15-16 brix in a very small apple. This one has been in my fridge for a couple weeks. When I first got them, they had good hardness. But, now that it has softened, it got bad scores from both my parents. My dad noted it had an interesting flavor, but was dry, which left it tied with Melrose for 2nd to last. It was also 2nd to last with my mom, for whom texture is vitally important. I liked them better a few weeks ago, but the bigger negative change in my opinion was the drop in acid. It used to have some kick, which is now mostly gone.
Jeff,
If you want brix and juice, then youāve got to get your hands on some Gravenstein apples.
They are good for only about 3 weeks (max) in August here, but during that window they are amazing.
By the way-- I had my heart set on growing Blue Pearmain, but thereās a cidermaker near Burkittsville who raises it. Sampling his BP, they are not very good and do not remotely resemble how beautiful they can be in the photos Iāve seen taken in New England. Perhaps they mature too quickly south of the Mason-Dixon, and this has a negative affect on the character of their development. The ones Iāve seen here were red over yellow (no blue blush at all) and ripe (overripe) Aug thru Oct. Waxy skin with pithy flesh here instead of the pleasing density reported by New Englanders. Maybe it doesnāt do well down here, or maybe I just havenāt caught a good one yet. Iāve sampled them over 2 years now and am worried the former is the case.
Iāve seen it claimed that Sheepās Nose/ Black Gilliflower was Ben Franklinās favorite apple, but have not seen any primary references to corroborate.
It may also be an ancestor to Hawkeye and Red Delicious if I am not mistaken.
Mattā¦I actually had Gravenstein selected and then removed it due to itās āHeavyā FB rating by ARS. I kinda wish I hadnāt done that. Another thing, I am (hopefully, havenāt asked yet) going to get some wood from a very old tree near my home here. I havenāt really studied the apple, but I suspect Gravenstein is a real possibility. It will be interesting to see of the owner has any clue what it is. Maybe closer inspection will rule it outā¦I dunno.
Given what you and Bob say, Iād have probably been better served to have not chosen Blue Pearmain. I have noticed wide variations in appearances online and I suspect your theory is accurate.
I think one of the suspected parents of Hawkeye was Yellow Bellflower. It was found growing in a Yellow Bellflower row, that Iām nearly certain of. Having said that though, I just read a blog where this guy received watercolor paintings from 1820 for his birthday, and an apple labeled āSheepās Noseā was very clearly what is today identified as Yellow Bellflower. Both have characteristics of Red Delicious (Sheepās Nose - elongated / Yellow Bellflower - prominent ābumpsā). I suspect all are closely related or ācousinsā of one another. Maybe Bullock is the common link as indicated in the painting.
http://emersonmerrick.blogspot.com/2009/10/jeffersons-apples.html
I wish instead Iād have chosen Vandevere. It sounds good and is the only good 1700ās Maryland apple that Iām aware of. I donāt know if I could change my request or not. I hate to be a pest on the governments dime.
I looked for that option on my sour cherry order (when Stan made some good suggestions) but didnāt see it. I decided to instead leave things as they are- no sense in bothering them enough to make them decide to not send me anything. 
Donāt worry about it. They wouldnāt mind pestering you on your dime.
I pester them as little as possible. Lots and lots of people were pestering the Davis repository and look what happened - they restricted orders to researchers only and a great resource was lost. In general I would suggest to not place overly large orders and generally not order many things you can get from other sources. Yes they are our government, but they have fixed budgeted staff they canāt increase it to fill hobbyist orders.
Exactly my thinking Scott, however Iām not so sure the āhobbyistsā on this forum contribute any less to society in terms of fruit growing than the so-called āresearchersā who are also funded by we the taxpayers. Iāve been reading reports from universities etc for many years now,much of this info being decades old. I donāt see where theyāve contributed a lot in the way of new information given all the resources that have been directed their way. There are so many more players than the successful ones like Cornell, Berkley, Minnesota, PRI etc. Our very own University of Maryland has done little as far as I can see.
Again, I agree with you entirely, but when I really think about it, Iām not so sure free wood for the reporting hobbyist isnāt a good deal for everybody.
Scott, do you have any experience with Vandevere?
I agree, we are making a very valuable contribution and maybe in a few years we will get some more respect. But the way the bureaucratic cookie crumbles we are dust specks in their mission statement so we are best effort only.
I have Vandevere and its just starting to fruit. I only got one apple this year and in my log I wrote it was dense and with an unusual fruity flavor. So, its one I am looking forward to this coming year! Iām not 100% certain I had the right variety as it was on a tree of backup grafts. My main graft of it did not fruit yet but should soon since it was added in 2012.