If I were to set out to burn a bunch of bramble buyers I’d pick wineberries bc of how easy they are to propagate.
I’m definitely leaning towards it being intentional.
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I purchased mine from a small nursery on Etsy. I won’t disclose their name since I contacted them and they immediately offered a refund. They did disclose, however, that they receive their “loganberries” as bare root from their supplier (which was not disclosed). So it looks like they might all get their Rubus from the same source.
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I remember that while they were planning the mall’s construction. I has been over a decade since I have passed that tower.
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I am wondering if this is a regular Loganberry. The canes look way more like Rubus ursinus than my Tayberry or thornless Loganberry. They are not fully ripe yet, but look like they will be wine-dark like Tayberry or Joan J raspberry. The tiny thorns are pretty nasty, and I got pricked just taking the photo.
The non-reflexed sepals cause me to believe this is some kind of American hybrid. It has been growing along the same fence line (beneath telephone lines) for years, but this is the first year they missed some of it with the weedwhacker. If the animals stay off of it, I may have a sample in a day or two.
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There is a video on here somewhere i believe that has talk in it about seedlings from loganberry caused by birds. In their case they said that the seedlings tasted better than the mother plant. I think that statement caused controversy.
The small canes you describe could be from lack of nutrition/sunlight and other factors…such as maturity.
Every method of propagating thornless Logan other than tissue culture will result in a thorned logan as far as i can tell.
This is what my thornless logan looks like today… fcanes long gone… pcanes working on covering my trellis.
When my fcanes are up flowering and fruiting… the first round of pcanes will come up and get huge… hard to deal with them fruiting and all those massive pcanes at the same time (my trellis is already completly full of fruiting fcanes).
I figured out a couple years ago that i could simply cut off low to the ground all those early pcanes to get them out of the way… and keep them cut out until fruiting was finished…
Then take out the spent fcanes… and then let it send up more pcanes… and it gladly does… and will completely fill my trellis and run off and across the yard (i have to prune off the excess).
One thing is for sure… here in TN in a morning sun only location a logan will send out an abundance of pcanes… you can even whack them all off early July… and it will send out plenty more late summer and thru fall… and you will have all the pcanes you want.
The logan in the pic above is one i tip rooted last fall/winter… and transplanted this spring… to a location that only gets 3 hr of morning sun.
It sent up only one pcane this first year… but it has 13 ft of growth on it now and i have to tie the ends to the wire about once a week… it grows more than a ft per week.
Logans… morning sun… even as little as 3 hours… lots of pcanes… fcanes and fruit.
The prime ark freedoms i planted in that same bed… are quite small… they evidently need a lot more sun than logans do.
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It’s me who posted it, in this other video [Ali’s ] said that the berries are also sweeter:
I’ll try this winter to make roots cuttings to get a thorned one to compare the vigor and the taste.
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If the nil-posted berries were always in an uncultivated area, it would be hard to trace a parentage unless there are long-term known varietal plantings in the area. The berries pictured have more Boysen characteristics than Logan (Boysen: small drupelet count, large drupelets, blocky berry shape)(and if they ripen to pure black, forget Boysen).
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Cane berries are very popular in the area. I have read several articles about wild hybrids on the West coast. It seems that Native hybrids with just Himalaya blackberry are relatively rare; but evergreen blackberry, Eastern species, and their European hybrids will breed quite readily.
I am thinking it is some hybrid of Rubus ursinus and raspberry. It could easily be a loganberry offspring or a hybrid of raspberry and blackberry. I am leaning away from tayberry offspring because of the reflexed sepals and the hazy white of the canes. The area was hit with a weedwhacker again, but some berries were untouched. Still waiting for the sepals to turn brown. It only gets an hour or two of late afternoon sun, so I think it is affecting the ripening.
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Can you tie it to a tomato stake to keep it out of the weedwacker path? It would be a shame to get this close to trying them only to have them chopped down. Maybe you can take a 5-gallon bucket of dirt out there (big enough to see in the overgrowth) and tip root one of the canes and move the experiment elsewhere next year.
I tried a few berries, and they were very tart at 9 Brix. I am not surprised since they only get a small amount of weak sun in their location. It is located on a property line between 2 houses, and there are a ton of suckers from all the times it has been chopped down. The people who live there do not seem inclined to use herbicide. I want to put some in a sunny location to see how it affects the fruit.
I am starting to wonder if this may be a hybrid of Rubus ursinus and Rubus strigosis. The glands on the sepals look a lot like native American raspberry. The canes & leaves resemble Rubus ursinus, but have thorns that resemble Tayberry.
I have had some issues getting some seeds to germinate, but I am thinking about a neighbor who has pet birds in her house. If her birds can safely eat bramble berries, It may solve some germination difficulties.
This logan that was propigated from tip rooting last fall and tranaplanted to this bed early spring… now has 16ft of cane growth.
The PAF in same bed are not doing nearly as well… one looks pretty good the other two are not doing much. One has 1 berry on it.
Logans do really good with 3-4 hours of morning sun only. Looks like PAF may need more sun to thrive.
My Phenomenal Berry canes are doing pretty well this year. I hope to have fruit next year.
Phenomenal is Luther Burbank’s answer to Loganberry.
The Phenomenal was introduced by Luther Burbank, the Loganberry by Dr. Logan of Santa Cruz, Cal. The Phenomenal is a cross between the Cuthbert raspberry and one of the California native dewberries. The Loganberry is a cross between the Antwerp raspberry and a native California dewberry.
“The Logan is very sour or a very sharp acid, while the phenomenal is decidedly sweet, with the berry inclined to be larger across the base, and of a more crimson color than Logan.”
From The Fruit Grower (1908)
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Heredity/LoganPhenom1908.html
From my source plant
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That looks similar to my thornless logans.
Mine may be larger ?
If they are sweeter… but still have that outstanding flavor … grow vigorously and ripen early like logans… i would love to have some.
Once you start getting ripe berries from both… would love to hear your comparison.
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Does it grow like raspberry?
Not mine but this is from the mother plant
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@DennisD … logans grow somewhat like raspberry… but like a raspberry on steroids.
They put out some long vigorous canes that just keep on going. 15-20 ft not unusual at all for mine.
I cant just grow them up like raspberry… but have to let them go horizontal to handel all that cane length.
Below a couple pics…
In another month that trellis will be completely covered and they will run off the ends and hang down. (Some tip rooting).
Tremendous growers… and will fruit like crazy all along that length next spring.
Note i cut off all pcanes that came up in june and july in that bottom pic… trellis along house wall… and the pcanes you see there now have done all that growth since mid july… they will keep growing into November.
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Ok thanks, sort of like my thornless blackberry
How many weeks do they typically fruit?
