Jerry Lehman's Orchard Fall 2017

[Matt_in_Maryland]

[Matt_in_Maryland]

In Indiana, they make a persimmon pudding cake.

[Matt_in_Maryland]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJF8PDZy8Ic

[BobVance]

I would recommend that unless you’re in a true zone 7a maybe even 7b that you stick with Nikita’s Gift and Rosseyanka and American persimmon varieites. Zone 6b winters will kill any Asian’s from what I’ve heard.

If someone is solidly in 7a, with occasional dips into 6b, I think they could grow Tam Kam successfully.

I’m theoretically on the border between 7a and 6b, but based on the last 5 years, I think I’m on the border between 6a and 6b. Mine survived the first few winters, which ranged from 0F to -4F (6b) without any die-back. Then -8F and -9F (6a) wacked it good, leaving it to grow back from the base, where I piled wood-chips. This past winter, I took some time and bundled it up well (tarp, leaves, etc), so of course we had another (relatively) mild winter around 0F.

I’ve got a bunch of suckers growing up around it, which I’ve grafted interesting varieties to. So I probably won’t bother to protect Tam Kam this winter. Either it lives and maybe I finally get to sample some (it bloomed for the first time, right before the 2 cold winters), or it dies and I let one of the suckers grow up and replace it. The suckers are mostly Americans or hybrids (Nikita’s Gift, Yates, Early Golden, H118, etc).

[JohnS]

They are slow growing trees, so just watch them and trim a bit to keep it low.
John S
PDX OR

[Barkslip]

@strudeldog thanks a lot for your observations. They’re excellent.

@BobVance as well… thank you for chiming in. The big picture is becoming much more clear.

I received an email from Jerry Lehman regarding seedless fruit of either Rosseyanka or NIkita’s Gift. He had more to say than my original question:

"I feel very confident, but don’t know for certain as I’ve had no way to test it, that both will set seedless fruit without a pollinator. But the fruit set might be heavier with a pollinator. The bad news about Nikita’s Gift is the fruit will contain some empty seed cases making it difficult to make nice even slices for drying. Rosseyanka works best for fruit drying.

Jerry"

---

Dax

[Levers101]

Thanks Dax. I appreciate the info. Sounds compelling that they produce seedless fruits. Too bad only half of my grafts took this year.

[clarkinks]

JF&E offers some descriptions like these http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/fruit-trees/persimmon/ but specifically these http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product/rosseyanka-persimmon-tree/ which make some of these sound awfully good! This what they said “
Rosseyanka Persimmon Tree – Astringent American- Kaki Hybrid
An extremely cold hardy Russian hybrid from Cremea. Rosseyanka persimmon was one of the first crosses of our native American persimmon Diospyros virginiana and the Asian Kaki persimmon. Its 2-3 inch fruit are seedless. It has an custard like smooth texture, and a wonderful spicy american persimmon flavor. If you love american persimmons this is the ultimate without the seeds. The trees are rapid upright growers to 15-20 foot with a more American persimmon leaf type. Excellent large shade tree if left un-pruned. Fruit ripens mid October through late November. Zones 6-9
We love to hear more about how our trees are doing after you plant them. Serafin Costa an avid fruit grower in Rocky Hill Connecticut sent in some picture of his 10 year old Rosseyanka trees. Serafin gardens in zone 6. Way to go Serafin, beautiful trees.”

Many of us in zone 6 are assuming when they say zone 6 hardy they mean zone 6 a but in reality they likely mean 6 b with some of these. Nikita’s gift is a gorgeous persimmon as shown on JF& E . This is what they said at this link http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product/nikitas-gift™-persimmon-tree/
“Nikitas Gift Persimmon Tree – Astringent American-Kaki Hybrid
What could be more lovely than a tree loaded with delicious 2-3 inch bright reddish-orange persimmons? From the Ukraine, Nikita’s Gift persimmon tree is a hybrid of Asian and American persimmons. The fruit have exceptionally sweet flavor when ripe (you’ll know when they fall off the tree). Bold red leaf color in the fall is an added bonus. Fruit ripens late October – November. Zones 6-9.

”
I’ve got to admit The pictures and descriptions from Just Fruit and Exotics above make these 2 persimmons sound great! I would love to grow some of these someday! I know prok is probably more realistic for long term growing but not exactly what I want http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product/prok-persimmon-tree/

“Prok Persimmon Tree – Astringent American-Kaki Hybrid
The Prok persimmon tree is a seedling from the Cornell University breeding program, grown out by John Gordon of Amherst NY. One of the most successful variety in zone 5 and 6 due to it’s early ripening qualities. Fruit are very large for an American persimmon 2 1/2 to 3 inches and mostly seedless when grown without a pollinator. Rated as the best tasting American persimmon by many leading fruit enthusiast. Self fertile. Fruit ripens in November. Zones 5-9 ”

[Barkslip]

My friend and I have grafted Rosseyanka here twice as well as the folks right across the Mississippi River from me at Red Fern Farms. Our combined experience has been that the first winter the scion will die to about an inch above the grafts and then it goes again. After the second winter it has died every time below the graft union. Every time, same experience at two different locations, exactly right next to each other.

I’ve messaged with @tonyOmahaz5 Tony and I believe I will give it another shot using his methods. First year graft it and then prepare the entire scions and below the union for winter with a gunny sack full of leaves for protection. Early spring the second year hit it with pure urea so the growth is phenomenal. Then for winter prepare it once again.

After two years Tony has had success. I’ll learn one way or the other. He may have urban heat also helping whereas we are grafting in the wide open.

Dax

[SMC_zone6]

JF&E offers some descriptions like these

Clark, JF&E is a great nursery in my opinion. They send out big healthy plants that are potted and don’t suffer transplant shock. Few nurseries do that. But l learned the hard way that it’s also important to keep in mind that they’re located in Florida and so their rootstock hasn’t been tested up north. I believe they graft all their persimmons to D. virginiana rootstock, but not all D. virginiana are hardy to zone 6. I think it was a Sheng I ordered from that the rootstock died when it was -14 or so one year. I’d encourage you to think about burying JF&E’s persimmons with the graft union below the soil line. I’d also echo what @Barkslip said about letting your trees get a little meat on their bones before completely leaving them to the elements. Persimmons seem to get more cold hardy the older they are.

I’d bet you could do Rosseyanka, and JT-02, and may Kassandra, but not Nikita’s Gift. NG just doesn’t seem to be as cold hardy as many of the nurseries claim.

You could also consider growing persimmons in containers. @tonyOmahaz5 started a good thread on that topic a while back. Container Grown Kaki Persimmons

[clarkinks]

I saw a branch of Nikita’s gift at a nearby orchard about 30 minutes from here so I may need to check and see how they are growing it.

[tonyOmahaz5]

Clark,

How close are you to Powell Botanical Garden in KC. They got Prok and Nikita’s Gift ripened there yearly.

Tony

Powell Gardens

Powell Gardens near Kansas City

Clark or Olpea, Have you guys had the chance to visit the Powell Gardens? They got all kind of fruit trees that you can take a taste test in the fall. I may take a trip there this coming fall while visiting my brother in law in KC. Tony

[clarkinks]

There is a gentleman growing them in Lawrence successfully. Both places are close to me but my area runs colder for reasons not well understood. At times my winters are effectively a zone colder much more like 5b than 6A. They have many winters that are like 6B. The truth is I think they have warmth from the cities.

[mamuang]

If so, I would not recommend Nikita’s Gift. I have it for the 3rd year now. I’ve wrapped it every year. Anything not wrap (top part) all died back. This past winter was not even that cold. So, if you don’t plan to wrap it for winter protection, you may lose it sooner or later.

[Barkslip]

Thanks a lot Mamuang.

I probably won’t mess with it then.

Best of regards.

Dax

[mamuang]

You’re welcome, Dax.

I will wrap it again this year. Not sure how many years I would want to do it. I don’t have @tonyOmahaz5’s patience and dedication

[Barkslip]

[tonyOmahaz5]

Mam,

Any recent photo of your Nikita’s Gift?

Tony

[mamuang]

Tomorrow, Tony. Right now it is too dark for pic. The tree is short ( like me I trim it to about 4-5 ft tall for an easy wrap.

Surprisingly, the leaves are so healthy, very dark green. Wish my other trees look this good. I grafted 3 varieties on it. Bad move. I could lose them if NG croaked.

I have to buy an American persimmon tree to ensure I will have a tree that won’t die on me.

@SMC_zone6, kindly gave me a seedling. I kept it too long in a pot. It has not grown much at all.

[Barkslip]

@mamuang

I was thinking Rosseyanka when you said Nikita’s Gift.

I will try Rosseyanka again. @tonyOmahaz5

My mistake.

Dax