‘Kasandra’ that I put in for a customer definitely had larger fruits matching Cliff’s estimate. ‘Mikkusa’ was also large sized. It’s been a few years since I’ve seen either. Both had regular watering in our long, hot summers much like Cliff’s place. I wonder if that helps them size up compared to cooler, short season climates?
I started an IKKJiro this spring… hopefully in a few years I will get to see some large persimmons.
At my new home location i also have Kasandra, NG, ZK, WS8-10… expext all those will be larger than the wilds i have here.
1 Like
Does anyone have a picture and taste test of a Journey that they grafted?
Do some Persimmon trees mature with increasing fruit quality and size over time? Does the fruit from a young persimmon tree get bigger and better tasting as the tree ages? I ask because some persimmon trees we have that are young are producing fruits that just dont live up to the size and taste descriptions published by sellers and some growers. As an example our Prok produces a persimmon no bigger than H63A and is just kind of plain tasting, its not a wild tasting seedling, but its not one I would see a breeder getting excited about and promoting to other growers? Of course it could be a mislabeled tree, so I got scions from another grower who shows pics of his big fruits so it will be grafted onto our small fruiting Prok to compare.
I don’t mean to beat a dead horse (as I’ve mentioned this many times before) but the “Prok” that I bought in 2015 from Stark’s matches your disappointing description – it’s fruit is the same size as H63A or BB, it has a bland taste, and it loses astringency late or never. I’ve concluded that either (a) my Prok is mislabeled; maybe the scion died and the rootstock took over; or (b) there are two varieties labeled Prok but one of them is far inferior, maybe the result of a nursery mixup. [Actually I think that my hypothesis that “the scion died” must be false because I have had seeds in both Prok and nearby Kassandra. That leads me to suspect that the rootstock is male and that the numerous root suckers have sometimes produced male flowers. Meanwhile, something female is growing on top.]
In any case, my “Prok” fruit did not get bigger or better over the 5-6 crops I’ve harvested. The H63A and Barbra’s Blush grafted 2 years ago to the same “Prok” tree produced fruit last year that was similar in size but far superior in taste and appearance.
I’ve begun to wonder if rootstock influences fruit size in persimmons like it tends to for apples.
2 Likes
??? I thought rootstock in applies controls tree size, not fruit size?
I also wonder if rootstock influences whether one is more early or more late ripening.
My understanding is that the clearest/most important effect of rootstocks for apples is to control tree size (and soil tolerance etc.) but I know for example that my B9s are expected to produce smaller fruits in some cultivars compared to peer rootstocks:
Back on persimmons, I think it would be really useful to learn more and develop rootstocks. Presumably there’s already variation in rootstock performance since we’re all using seedlings and DV genetics seem pretty diverse (I know nothing of genetics, just from reading here). Given the hobby rather than commercial nature, perhaps this is another data collection/small scale experimentation worth considering.
I do know that I grafted 4 Tam Kam on various Dv rootstocks. 3 of those ripened at the same time and one of them ripened 3-4 weeks later. I only have two of those left thanks to the weather but one ripens much earlier than the other.
4 Likes
Does the later ripening graft bud out and bloom later, or is it just slower to ripen?
1 Like
I’ll have to check on that. I’ve never noticed.
I grafted two scions of Journey to a couple of my wild DVs this spring.
Both are looking good so far.
I will be glad when I can give you a taste test report !!!
Love the taste of vanilla in the mix with persimmon flavor. I have a wild dv roadside tree with that mix… which was my favorite persimmon of all last year.
Journey is supposed to have taste of vanilla.
Cant wait to try one.
TNHunter
1 Like
It absolutely could. A later leafing rootstock would make a later leafing specimen of a particular variety grafted to it.
1 Like
If you read through this thread you’ll understand the limitations on persimmon rootstock compared to apples. TL/DR- persimmons don’t root from cuttings like apples do to clonally propagate in the same way (except for the ones that might).
Ah I vaguely remember that thread! It seems like further experimentation with etiolation or stooling may be more promising than hardwood cuttings.
It would seem intuitive that trees that bear on 1st year wood would vary in ripening based on vigor/precocity. Not that I’d need it with Journey even in this climate. Hopefully Journey wasn’t one of my hopeless “half inch scion with 1/8 rootstock” grafts.
Both trees have fruits that appear to be in the same stage of development. About dime size.
1 Like
Okay, just curious if the rootstock was delaying budbreak more than the other. I guess not in this case. Thanks.
yes, they are easily stool layered. Itd be great if someone tissue cultured or otherwise was able to produce a given cultivar on its own roots. It could then be stool layered to produce endless clones- no rootstock needed. John Gordon was doing that with SAA Pieper, and also had Szukis on it’s own roots. I believe he received it as a sucker from a seedling tree grown by a Mr. Szukis somewhere in upstate NY. Id done some hunting at one point to see if the original or Gordon’s own root clone are still extant. I didn’t find out anything definitive though