Jujubes- Our New Adventure

[lilke]

@BobVance you have amazingly good percentage of successful grafts. Please, I beg you, tell me how you make your grafts, when, which technique you use, etc.
I have similiar percentage of successful grafts with any other plants. Plums,cherries,apples, pears, quince etc. It’s even higher than 80% , I’d say more than 90%. Jujubes and walnuts are my nightmare for now. No matter what I do they just dont take
I watched youtube video of dr Yao doing it, and that’s pretty much what I do.
I’d like to think that is not about my technique or time, but that tigertooth is not suitable for grafting or scions are not so good. After all I receive them after months, my friend keep them in refrigerator , but who knows. Also I recieved some peach scions year or two ago and none of them was good, they looked ok but none is pushed bud. But grafts with peaches I get from here, and almond as well, was successful. So I comfort myself that way. It’s frustrating.
There is still hope for some buds to break, will see in few weeks. But in two years, last one and this one, I made about 50 grafts of jujubes. For now 0% of success.
At least seeds are good and sprouting. I’ll have enough plants for rootstock and for planting. Wild ones and xu zhou are the most. Even have 3 honey jar for now

Root cuting I get from Raf also show signs of life.

There is some hope for rooting of cutted branches also. I put few in a soil, yesterday noticed that one has dried but others are still have green leaves. Will see if they gona make it thru summer.

[mamuang]

@BobVance
You are so good at keeping data. When I said single bud by wood, I meant extreme short wood like in your pic. I do need some length of scionwood to hold onto when grafting. It is interesting to see the results of larger sized wood. Thank you.

I do not like to graft with scionwood larger than a pencil size so now I have another reason to avoid it

[BobVance]

@lilke

tell me how you make your grafts, when, which technique you use, etc

I’ve been using cleft grafts, with Temflex tape to hold the union together. Parafilm pre-applied to the scion and added on top of the Temflex at the end.

This winter, I stored the scions pre-wrapped in parafilm. I think that really helped for some such as persimmons, but am not sure how much impact it had for jujube. I had pretty decent results even before doing that. Peaches are much harder for me…

From a timing perspective, I generally do it a bit early (early to mid April), but I’ve done it later in the past and had success. This spring, it was cold, so it took a while for things to leaf out.

@lilke

tigertooth is not suitable for grafting

I don’t think that would be a problem- I have several takes on my Tigertooth. I hope it is good for grafting, as it isn’t good for producing tasty jujubes…

Also, I think that suckers from a Tigertooth on it’s own roots were one of the rootstock sources that Just Fruits and Exotics used to use.

@lilke

or scions are not so good…I receive them after months, my friend keep them in refrigerator

That’s a possibility. Maybe you can see if they can send them to you as soon as they are cut. Then, you can manage their storage. Make sure they are sealed up well and aren’t stored with fruit (which produces Ethylene gas).

@mamuang

I do not like to graft with scionwood larger than a pencil size so now I have another reason to avoid it

I checked and pencils are reported to be 6-8mm wide, depending on the type of pencil. The one I measured was 7mm. That puts it in the “Large” group, and already starting to see a slight drop in success. From the above data, it seems that the best target would be about 5mm, just slightly thinner than a pencil.

@mamuang

You are so good at keeping data.

Thanks- part of it is that I’m pretty bad about labeling, so I like to have a good record of what is grafted where. I also just like data

One thing that makes it easier is to make a recording with my phone. That way, I don’t need to bring a clipboard everywhere while grafting. Then, at night, I can go through the recording and put it down in the spreadsheet.

Something like:

“Tae Sang Wang grafted on the Sugar Cane near the block bed by the driveway, one bud, medium large, 3.2’ up, to the WNW, 70 degree above horizontal”

If I’m doing a mix of grafts (bark, splice, cleft, etc) I’ll note that, but normally everything is a cleft and I figure I can remember that until evening…And I don’t actually measure-I’ve created a rough idea of 6’, 5’, and 4’ high (my height, a tad under my shoulder, and my elbow respectively). For close to the ground, I use my 12" long shoes to measure.

@k8tpayaso

Y’all check out the pictures and see if you agree with me. If so, I’m really excited because this “sucker” is already twice as tall as my stunted Massandra.

Looks like it could be. But, you’ll really know when you get fruit. Massandra’s shape is distinctive enough that I bet it will be different than the rootstock.

[FarmGirl-Z6A]

All five of my Jujube planted this spring are now leafing out. Whew!

[lilke]

@BobVance

I’ve been using cleft grafts, with Temflex tape to hold the union together. Parafilm pre-applied to the scion and added on top of the Temflex at the end.

That’s pretty much the usual procedure. Although I didn’t wrapped the scions, next time I will wrap it all the way with tape and prevent drying out. I have some thin grafting stretch foil but it’s very good for that , and buds easily break through it. Now it’s late to do that, and besides that we have rain for days, and it will be like that at least for 10 days more. So scions will have moisture.
Dr Yao didn’t wrapped the scions on that video so I did the same.

But my failures are not related to my technique.

This is the first sign of success with jujubes it’s vegas booty from Raf , and as you can see it’s cleft grafted.
So Bob you’re right about tigerttooth as rootstock. Now I expect from other grafts to show signs of success. Scions of sihong and chico look good for now, others looks a bit dried but I’m not touching it. Thought about scratch test but decided to let it the way it is and the time will show if they are dead or not. I have to say that we have some cold weather, unusual for this time of year, and all of my persimmon grafts are still not pushing. With warmer weather I expect from them and jujube grafts to start with growth. Will see.

@BobVance

That’s a possibility. Maybe you can see if they can send them to you as soon as they are cut. Then, you can manage their storage. Make sure they are sealed up well and aren’t stored with fruit (which produces Ethylene gas).

Ahh, it’s not so simple. I live half way around the globe, last year and a half everything is turned upside down because of the pandemic. My friend live in New York, and he brings the scions and seeds when he come here, again because of the pandemic he hasn’t been able to travel. He tried to send them to me but without succes. I mean probably it can be done but only with phytosanitary certificate which cost a lot and I’m not able to pay it. Maybe regulations are more strict now, because two years ago I received lot’s of seeds and scions by mail. This time I said to my friend to put a piece of moist paper towel in zip lock bags so the scions can have moisture. I cannot complain about how they are stored, everything was in zip lock bags.

Have one question about wild jujubes, I checked jujube seedlings at my sister’s place and take few photos of them. There I have 3 seedlings and 1 sucker. One of the seedlings have big thorns, like spikes. Others, including shanxi li and tigertooth, don’t have big thorns or they almost dont have it at all.

What do you think about that first one, is it wild one or not? I’m curious about it because until now I didn’t saw such a big thorns. And I can’t wait from them to fruit and see what they will look like

[k8tpayaso]

Some of my wild ones have had big thorns and some of my cultivar seedlings have had big thorns. I do have a rootstock seedling that has really nice fruit. It’s not very big (much larger than a sour jujube fruit) but sweet and good tasting.

[lilke]

Ahh I can’t wait to see the fruits on them, maybe I’ll put some more fertilizer to boost them

[castanea]

If you fertilize with a general fertilizer you will get more plant growth and less fruit in the short term. Is that what you’re trying to accomplish?

[lilke]

Generally speaking yes, those jujubes are small,about 30cm or 1 foot. If they grow more they will produce earlier. Or at least I think so.

[castanea]

If they put on more vegetative growth they will generally produce later.

[lilke]

Then i will not fertilize them, thanks for information. Today I checked them again and they have very small flowers, so maybe they will fruit already. If I’m correct this is their 3rd year. Like with grafts I’ll just have to wait.

[BobVance]

@castanea

If they put on more vegetative growth they will generally produce later.

Do you mean later in the season, or pushing productivity into future years? Some of my fastest growing jujubes have been the most precocious, while I’ve had very slow growing ones which still haven’t produced after 3-4 years. Obviously very unhappy plants may not produce, but the fast growing ones (10-12’ in year #2) being quite productive in year #2 seems pretty good. But, the fast growing ones did produce pretty late in the season, maybe 2-3 weeks behind the same varieties at other locations.

@lilke

Generally speaking yes, those jujubes are small,about 30cm or 1 foot.

If they are only one foot tall, then I’d say to size them up, even if it delays fruiting a year. There isn’t much point to try to get a small handful of fruit off a 1-2’ stick, when you could have a much larger tree full next year.

[castanea]

Depending on the size of the plant, and its individual genetics, jujubes that are putting on significant vegetative growth will delay or minimize flowering to next year or later that same year. Larger plants tend to delay to the same year. Smaller plants tend to delay to the next year.

[Ozymandias]

So I am in the process of planting out some Jujubes as a new experiment but now have to contemplate leaving them un-tended for a few years in a high deer pressure area.

How deer resistant are established jujubes?

Varieties:

Honey Jar
GA866 (I am aware people have had issues with this one, but I am trying growing it in a grassy area inside a black asphalt circular driveway. If it likes heat it will get it there…)
So
Li
Shanxi Li

I have already discovered that deer will eat tender new growth, my hope is that once the trees are better established and the thorns have hardened the deer won’t find them enjoyable anymore.

[k8tpayaso]

I’ve had more deer pressure this year than I ever have. I think it depends on what’s on offer…. The deer do not bother my jujubes, even the young ones. But they like, in order of preference, mulberry, peach, and plum. That’s the Texas deer that have an abundance this year due to the rain of lush grasses, shrubs and excessive growth of all kind. They have not bothered pear, apple, blueberry, elderberry, persimmon, or jujubes. I cannot say whether they would go for the jujubes if nothing else is available.

[Ozymandias]

Ours will eat most fruit trees… apple, cherry, peach, young jujube shoots, persimmons.

They even ate some cone flowers this year at our new house, which they won’t normally touch. They seem to have zero interest in figs and paw paws and relatively little interest in persimmons. It is a shame they aren’t smart enough to realize that if they just left these trees alone for a couple years they would end up winning in a big way.

[disc4tw]

I wanted to mention I watched this ant hanging out on this honey jar flower for a while today. As others have observed, I have not seen the standard pollinators (honey bees, bumbles) pollinating my jujubes, but there was a black wasp with a white circle around its abdomen making some progress while I watched the ant. I’ve noticed wasps in previous years too.

[k8tpayaso]

Ants, wasps of different kinds, daubers, house flies, larger house flies, butterflies, moths, lady bugs, various beetles, and mason bees but no honey bees.

And my neighbor has about a dozen hives……

[Harbin]

Bees will come eventually when the trees get older and start making large clusters of flowers.

[k8tpayaso]

First year or so it was just the ants. Then the wasps and flies started. Two years ago I had so many different kinds of insects it was crazy. Last year there were very few pollinating “bugs” I think because my trees budded out early after we had a strong freeze early the previous fall. No frost or early warning, just a hard freeze and I think a lot of insects bit the dust on that one. Most everyone had late frosts that spring and we didn’t…just right into early bloom. This year the incessant rain just put a damper on everything. But on usual years I see an increase in the numbers and kind of insects. When there are more blooms the smell is much stronger and calls all the natives to come see.